Group 12 Gordon Hall, Shantel Shepard Section. 41 Pg.233-239 "They talked on and on, using Milkman as the ignition that gunned their memories. He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black-haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more .... Never mind you can't tell one letter from another, never mind you born a slave, never mind you lose your name, never mind your daddy dead. (235)
This passage basically sums up the African American struggle in the early 1900's. Milkmans grandfathers story is the success story that every struggling black person wants and needs to hear. Despite all his hardships he stayed determined to make a better life for himself and his family. When the men say, "He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black-haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more" the pride in their voices that Morrison creates is palpable. His grandfathers success impacts the way milmans father lives and therefore the way Milkman lives.
Group 8 Rae Taylor-Burns, Beverly Nguyen Section 41 Pg 246-252 "They loved it. Stole for it, lied for it, killed for it. But I'm the one left. Me and the dogs. And I will never clean it again. Never. Nothing. Not a speck of dust, not a grain of dirt, will I move.
In this passage, Circe emphasizes how much the Butlers valued wealth and glamour, and points out the irony that though they were extremely rich, not one of them is living, and she, who does not care at all for riches, is left living in the remains of their wealth. She explains that she is only staying there so she can watch it disintegrate, and her repetition of the words "never, nothing" expresses her nihilistic desire to see the Butler's property fall to pieces. Like Guitars triumph over whites with the Seven Days, her refusal to clean shows her personal triumph over the Butler family. This is enhanced by the dogs' loyalty to her, which allows her to think of herself as a replacement of Mrs. Butler.
I agree with Gordon and Shantel's explication. I also think that when Milkman hears the other me talk about his grandfather with such pride, he himself becomes more proud of his family and his history. I don't think that Milkman had realized what his family had accomplished before he heard these men remembering his grandfather, but once he hears their perspective on his family, he has a sense of pride of being a member of the Dead family
pp. 233 - 239 "They talked on and on, using Milkman as the ignition that gunned their memories. He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black-haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more.... Never mind you can't tell one line from another, never mind you born a slave, never mind you lose your name, never mind your daddy dead" (235).
The purpose of this passage is to demonstrate how the story of Macon Dead inspired all the men and then took it away; the men are resigned to their lives of inequality and hopelessness. It is written like a sermon of the hope the farm gave, but when directed toward Milkman it falls on deaf ears. This relates to the rest of the story because Milkman usually does not exhibit feelings towards anything. The repetition in this passage emphasizes the "sermon's" reminder to forget the past and the simile of Milkman "as the ignition" demonstrates how they are using Milkman to bring their hope alive again. Lastly, the phrase "never mind your daddy dead" has a double meaning; it refers not only to Macon Dead Sr. but also the Macon Dead, Milkman's father and is directed towards Milkman.
Rae and Beverly made very good points in their explication that I hadn't thought of. Morisson usage of irony here is a really nice touch. Her refusal to clean showing her triumph is a good point, and it emphasis how much these people are willing to do to get back at the people who wronged them. Circe lives the rest of her days in a crumbling house solely to watch what was once important to the people she hates fall to pieces.
Group 13, Michelle Howard and Rominda Debarros Sect. 41 pp. 233-239
"Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!" (235)
This passage describes how Macon (I) made a life for himself out of nothing and refused to accept a lower position in society because he was black. He was admired by the community and by his son (especially) for doing this, which is how it became Macon (II)'s philosophy on life. This relats to the rest of the novel because it explains Macon (II)'s obsession with money and with owning things--which previously just seemed like greed. The emphasis of the punctuation and the use of 1st person shows that this philosophy on life inspired the whole community, and it's why the Dead family was so respected in Montour County.
I thougt it was interesting to see how Stephanie and Leisa focused on different parts of their quote from Gordon and Shantel. I agree that Milkman's father had a success story that everyone needed to hear, but I also think that the end result was more demoralizing because he had everything taken away. The community was able to take hope from his story, but not quite able to take away the courage required to do that themselves. Especially after they saw what happened to Milkman's grandfather, I think many of them went back to living in fear.
Group 7 Marina Napoletano & Tiffany Fonseca Section 41 pp. 246-252
"Finally she couldn't take it anymore. The thought of having ho help, no money--well, she couldn't take that. She had to let everything go...She didn't let me go. She killed herself." (247)
This passage was meant to emphasize the contempt and fear Circe's wealthy, upper-class employer had for the people and lifestyle of the lower classes. The woman Circe describes loses all of her money and is so horrified at the thought of having to live without servants and a huge, spare-no-expense mansion in perfect, gleaming condition that she kills herself...not before letting all of her servants go except Circe. The repetition of "couldn't take it" and "letting go" in various forms emphasize the loss of status, and the unbearable nature of having to let go of one's pride. This is important with relation to the rest of the book because pride and class issues concerning Milkman and his peers tend to be prevalent motifs throughout the novel.
I agree strongly with Michelle and Rominda's explication. For the first part of the novel I, too, wrote Macon II's desire to own things off as greed. I just assumed he'd be a villain of sorts because he was so obsessed with money and keys and owning houses and people and things and, most importantly, himself, because his father had been killed for not being able to own himself above all things. I agree that Macon II's desire to own things also comes from his admiration of the efforts and success of his father to own property and maintain a sizeable piece of land.
"They loved it. Stole for it, lied for it, killed for it. But I'm the one left. Me and the dogs. And I will never clean it again. Never. Nothing. Not a speck of dust, not a grain of dirt, will I move" (247).
This passage is a summary of the feelings of almost every character in the novel. All of them are forced to be or do something that they do not want. Milkman wants the money to get out, Guitar wants to "keep the ratio" because he is unhappy with his station, and Hagar wants Milkman but since she can't have him, no one can. In this paragraph, Circe is done with the work she was forced to do all her life to pay for food. "Never. Nothing," she says, showing the negativity felt by all the characters for their lot in life and the people who make them do things. In Guitar and Circe's cases, this is the white people, for Milkman it is his mother and father, and for Hagar it is her feelings for Milkman which she hopes will disappear along with his death. Circe is taking a stand against the role that she has been fit into and standing witness against those who seek to control her by outlasting them (her employers) so that she may ensure the destruction of their legacy (aka their house).
I also strongly agree with Michelle and Rominda. Macon (II) is so afraid that his son is not going to "seize the day" as he did and that Milkman will end up like the very lower level black people that Macon (II) has tried to separate himself from. He is so afraid of this that from a very early age he has impressed upon Milkman the importance of doing everything he can to make his impact in the world. If Milkman is not able to do this then Macon (II) will take him back into his home so that his son will not be a failure and he will have therefore failed as a father. Because of the pressure from his father to succeed, Milkman becomes obsessed with the idea of getting Pilate's gold. He is slowly but surely turning into his father even though this scares him, causing him to want to leave home even more. Macon (II) and now Milkman's greed is run by the fear of failure.
Group 2, Eleanor Harte and Jonlyn Englert, Section #21 pp 219 – 226 “Everybody wants the life of a black man. Everybody. White men want us dead or quiet – which is the same things as dead. White women, same thing. They want us, you know, ‘universal,’ human, no ‘race consciousness’….And black women, they want your whole self. Love, they call it, and understanding”
This passage refers to the way that Guitar thinks of the state of black men, as he explains it to Milkman. The informal language suggests that this is Guitar’s honest opinion, and his use of repetition emphasizes his point. His tone is somewhat sarcastic and is very cynical; he only sees the bad in these people, who he claims all want “the life of a black man” (222). This passage seems to echo Guitar’s tone on page 60, when he says that he doesn’t “give a damn about names”. This passage relates to the novel because it emphasizes the black man’s struggle in absolute terms; Guitar is finally telling Milkman the problems of their race and how they affect Guitar himself.
Rae & Beverly bring up a good point that Circe is living in the house just to watch the Butlers' wealth decay. While I had at first noticed the juxtaposition between Circe risking her life to help Macon and Pilate while Mrs.Butler killed herself rather than bruise her pride, Rae & Beverly's explication lead me to make the connection between Mrs. Butler killing herself because of her ego and Circe wasting her life because of her hate for the Butlers.
I agree with Rae and Beverly's explication, and I believe that they made some very good points. The way they thought about Morrison's use of language (ie, repetition) is important; I didn't think of it until they said it. I also like their point that Circe's triumph connects with Guitar's triumph; that's a good relation to the rest of the novel.
Group 6, Adedolapo Abioye and Laura Dinardo Section 12 pp.233-239 "Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!" (235)
This passage reveals the desire for the American dream in the black people of Milkman's grandfather's time and how Macon Dead I was able to accomplish that dream. The passage states that African Americans had as much right as anyone to own land and have ambitions as well; all they had to do was take it. The passage opens a window into Macon Dead I's character and the reason for his ambition, it also serves to juxtapose Macon's thought process to Milkman's sendentary processes. A sense of urgency is conveyed in the passage through the use of long flowing sentences intermingled with short stacato sentences, commands, and action verbs.
Group 3 Section #41 Monica Bulger and Caytie Campbell-Orrock
"Then he watched signs - the names of towns that lay twenty-two miles ahead, seventeen miles to the east, five miles to the northeast. And the names of junctions, creeks, landings, parks, and lookout points" (226).
As Milkman moves deeper into the country, he remains detached from the rural surroundings he feels superior to. He becomes more observant and focused on numbers, much like Guitar. He might be looking to recognize something on the signs he watches (not reads), hoping for a link or a simple solution to his quest.
I found Eleanor and Jonlyn's analysis particularly interesting because of how it related to things that Guitar previously said. The explication shows that Guitar joining the Seven Days was not an abrupt and unexplainable event, but instead a manifestation of his frustration with his race's oppression. Guitar is explaining his motivations to Milkman and it seems possible that his explanation could influence Milkman's future actions.
I agree with Jonlyn and Eleanore's assesment of their passage, it very much reveals how guitar feels about the state of black men in very stark terms. it also reveals how Guitar often only looks at things in a single point of view, something he also did in page 60 as they mentioned. on page 60 Guitar seems only to focus on the fact that black people have been oprpressed in the country for hundreds of years, Guitar thinks that he and the rest of the days are the only people doing anything thing about, completly ignoring the fact the civil rights movement is in full swing and other people are working tirelessly for the rights of black people. it is the same here on pg.220 he says that everyone wants to kill a black man except black men themselves, again totally ignoring the fact that they days would rather ask a fellow black man to die or allow him to crazy before stopping what they are doing. Guitar is sometimes as selfish as Milkman in the sense that he only thinks about his own pain and struggle. he refuses to think that there are decent white people who face the same struggles as he does, oh no to him there are only decent black MEN, unless they "think like a white man" of course.
I agree with Eleanor and Jonlyn's point on Guitar's kind of cynical tone when stating his perception of everyone around him. It seems as if his beliefs on what everyone else wants makes him bitter in a way. I think it also brings to light, once again, Guitar's reasoning for going to extremes such as joining the Seven days. Guitar ultimately feels as if he just can't win, all of the stresses from society make it impossible for him to live freely.
“Milkman began to shake with hunger. Real hunger, not the less than top-full feeling he was accustomed to, the nervous desire to taste something good. Real hunger. He believed if he didn’t get something to eat that instant he would pass out. He examined the bushes, the branches, the ground for a berry, a nut, anything, But he didn’t know what to look for, nor how they grew” (253).
At this point, Milkman has finished searching the cave on his quest to find the bags of gold and ends up finding no trace of it. This is the start of his “hunger” for food (figuratively used as a symbol for gold) as he becomes desperate to “eat something” or else he will pass out, which has a second meaning that he will become insane unless he finds the gold. In a sense, the gold is the “food” that will fill Milkman’s stomach and heart’s desires. Although he has no sense of direction, as he is lost in the wilderness, Milkman continues to look for the food that will fill his soul.
Group 1 Zoe Cuipylo-Watkins and Maya Nojechowicz Section 21
"He knew that an old woman had lived in it once, but he saw no signs of life there now. He was oblivious to the universe of wood life that did live there in layers of ivy grown so thick he could have sunk his arm in it up to the elbow. Life that crawled, life that slunk and crept and never closed its eyes" (219-20).
The meaning of this passage is that even in a place that appears to be dead, there is still life. It achieves this purpose by introducing us to how Milkman sees the world, and how he is blind to the life in this spot. It then goes on to show us what is actually there, employing contrast. Milkman is so focused on his goal, ignoring everything else, as his hunger for gold blinds him to everything else. The life here is also portrayed as sinister, using personification, and it can't really be destroyed, similar to Milkman himself.
I agree a lot with what Adedolapo, Laura, Michelle, and Rominda all said. It was really interesting to see Macon (II) through the eyes of people who knew him when he was younger and to better understand where his need to own things came from. It gives his character a lot more depth and makes you think he might be more than just the greedy man Milkman sees him as. This passage reflects the sentiments of his father, Macon I, to not be kept down because he was black and Macon II is now carrying those sentiments with him in his own life. Giving reason to Macon II’s ambition really changes the way he is viewed as a character to a certain extent.
I agree with Amanda and Alice's observation that in the passage on p.253. The "food" that Milkman is looking for when he emerges from the cave is not a physical hunger, but instead a mental one. The more he looks for the gold, the more he wants it and thinks about it. Also, this suddenness of emotion is one that has already been experienced by Milkman when thinking of the gold. The first time this happens, he is talking with the old men in Reverend Cooper's house about Macon and all that he has. All of a sudden Milkman is overcome with a strong desire to go out and find the gold. As soon as this though registers in his brain, he will do anything to fulfill this wish. Similarly, Milkman's hunger hits him after emerging from the cave. Again, he will do anything to satisfy this wish, even if it means eating twigs and dirt. Therefore, because of the parallel between these two situations in which Milkman is overcome with a desire and a will to satisfy it, I agree that the "food" in this sense that Milkman believes he really needs is gold. He also shows that is willing to go through really everything to get it.
I agree with Aded and Laura on how the passage is talking about the American Dream to all black people and how Macon I was able to achieve it. I liked how they analyzed the syntax to show that there is urgency in the black people's quest for their American Dream that whites haven't allowed them to possess.
Winnie and Michelle bring up an interesting point in reference to Milkman's illogical mindset regarding the gold. I agree that he is driven to Virginia wholeheartedly by selfish purposes so much so that it makes me question the inevitability of Milkman's reconnection with his family's past and whether that might truly be the reasoning behind his blind hunt for the gold. His purposeful detachment from his immediate family, further suggests that there’s more to be determined about Milkman’s discovery of extended family ties, considering he’s traveling to Virgina, where part of Pilate's life is permanently embedded.
I think Aded and Laura made a good connection between the desire for a home by African Americans and the American Dream. Macon I’s passion and ambitions are evident in his advice to “Grab it. Grab this land!” (235). Analyzing this passage also gives you insight into Macon II’s outlook on life, which Aded and Laura mentioned, and provides a little more background into why he acts this way and how it influences Milkman.
I agree with Adedolapo and Laura’s analysis of their passage, especially their point that “all they [African Americans] had to do was take it [the right as anyone to own land and have ambitions]. After reading this passage and the analysis, I better understand how Macon Dead, Milkman’s father, has come to be the person he is – a man who desires to own his own things and own other people. From reading the passage, I feel the senses of determination and courage behind the words, and I think that these senses have encouraged and galvanized Milkman’s father to own houses, own a car, and have material items that are rare for a Black man to own at this time period. Just as Milkman’s grandfather had “grabbed” a large amount of farmland, Milkman’s own father Macon Dead has accomplished a similar feat by “grabbing” the land on which his house is built and the lands of the many houses that he owns.
Group 7 Ismael Saib, Taylor Laffey Sec. 21 pp.246-252 Passage:"finally she couldn't take it anymore. The thought of having no help, no money-well, she couldn't take that. She had to let everything go...she didn't let me go. She killed herself." (247)
Though the passage Circe's boss is shown to value her prode more than her own life. She refused to work and killed herself rather than lower herself to servant standards. This is directly contrasted with the next passage which describes Milkman's arduous journey to attain money.
I agree with Amanda and Alice in that Milkman becomes even hungrier for gold after his empty search in the cave. However, I think that hunger represents more than just his need for gold. It is the first time Milkman seems to strongly want anything. He comes alive, whereas before he was always portrayed as self-serving, or oblivious, or nonchalant. The gold awakens a hunger in him for his own life, to split apart from his father, and accomplish something on his own. The greed causes him to grow up. The harder he tries to find the gold, the more he wants it, and the more he wants it for himself and not because Macon wants him to get it.
Group 4 Sally Gao and Daniel Imahiyerobo Section 41 p. 226-233
“All his life he’d heard the tremor in the word: “I live here, but my people…” or: “She acts like she ain’t got no people,” or: “Do any of your people live there?” But he hadn’t known what it meant: links” (229).
The passage expresses Milkman’s feeling of belonging somewhere for the first time- he feels more connected now than ever before to his family because the people from Danville have brought life to his past. Just before this passage Milkman “smiled apologetically” (229) because of his bizarre name, Macon Dead, but when he sees that Reverend Cooper recognizes his name, he appreciates it greatly and lets “his shoulders slump” (229), a sign of relaxation and comfort with him. The use of the word ‘people’ in italics and the anaphora of the word itself emphasizes how significant this moment is: it is the first time Milkman truly feels any emotional attachment to his family, and even a connection to these Danville townspeople he just met because they know his history. Later on in the chapter, it becomes clear that by becoming acquainted with the people of his past, Milkman has developed a newfound respect for his heritage and background, surprising himself by being outraged over his grandfather’s death at the hands of avaricious white men.
I think Monica and Caytie made good points about Milkman's bus ride and what he sees and thinks during that time, especially their point about detachment. Everything is in some other direction, not near where he is. I think that applies not only to Milkman's sense of superiority and isolation in the rural setting, but throughout the novel. He has nothing that he is committed to in his life. His father has his business, Milkman has the Seven Days, but Milkman remains detached from everything, possibly because of his sense of superiority or because of a reluctance to commit. The image of the road signs shown here demonstrates his lack of individual place and purpose.
Group 1, Kathleen Gillespie and Kylie Nagle. Section 41. pp.216-226 "He knew that an old woman had lived in it once, but he saw no signs of life there now. He was oblivious to the universe of wood life that did live there in layers of ivy grown so thick he could have sunk in it up to the elbow. Life that crawled, life that slunk and crept and never closed its eyes" (219-20).
In this passage Milkman is oblivious to the true life that surrounds him and cannot see past the fact that no human life exists. In the greater context of the novel this relates to the fact that he often is ignorant to thins going on right around him. He fails to truly understand his history when he is younger and at his present stage he fails to understand his family and cannot see past his own perceptions of them therefore missing the truths about them going on right in front of him. The ivy and wood life in this passage are symbols for his family members whom he does not pay enough attention to to understand.
Group 10 Section 41 To comment on Winnie and Michelle’s explication, I agree with the idea of Milkman’s “logical reasoning” and his materialistic desires. What strikes me is that the issue at hand is the remains of his very own grandfather and his resting place, and yet Milkman dwells little on this. Instead he seems very detached from his family. He doesn’t refer to them by name, but by “she” and “Negro” and seems to be only interested in the gold. He acts like someone who dismisses a car accident on the road as he rushes to get badly needed groceries at the store- but he people in the accident are his aunt and grandfather. Yet I agree that this rather wealthy young man’s following of his aunt’s tracks will only bring him face to face with his own history. Tiffany Fonseca
Group 9 John Margaris, Parker WIlson Section 41 pp.252-258 Passage: "What do I owe you? For the Coke and all?" The man was smiling, but his face changed now. "My name's Garnett, Fred Garnett. I ain't got much, but I can afford a Coke and a lift now and then"... Mr. Garnett had reached over and closed the door. Milkman could see him shaking his head as he drove off." (225)
This excerpt demonstrated the conflict between the customs of two different socio-economic classes, Milkman representing the wealthier city-dwellers, and Fred Garnett the poorer rural class. These differences are not an issue until Milkman brings money into the conversation, and it is the issue of money that offends Garnett. When money becomes part of the (short) relationship, prejudices are drawn out in both of them: We can infer that Garnet's immediate reaction to Milkman is a result of previous experiences, grievances, and opinions; and that Milkman's preoccupation with money and his need to pay Garnett for his services are a result of his higher station. Also The syntax in this excerpt is fascinating, because regardless of social class or clothing, Milkman had previously been brought to his knees (in need of food, drink, and transportation). His language is short and improper, and the slang he uses places him on the same level as Garnett. By the end here, however, he has reverted to his proper speech... further accenting the culture gap and the offer of money, offending Garnett.
Group 1, Section 41. I agree with Amanda and Alice on their point that his hunger is truly a symbolism for his hunt for the gold. I think it is a desire for him and something he now feels necessary to his survival to find. I also think that Sally and Daniel bring up a good point regarding Milkman finally feeling a connection. My passage symbolized his distance from his past and his inability to truly see his family for who they are. Therefore, I agree with them that here he finally is able to feel a true connection to them and is grateful to them for being able to tell him about his family history. Finally,I agree with Rae and Beverly about Circe because I too think that this book is trying to show wealth it not everything as it leads to the downfall of many characters.
Group 11 Cindy Guan and Thinh Nguyen Section 41 "All his life he'd heard the tremor in the word: 'I live here, but my people...' or :'She acts like she ain't got no people,' or 'Do any of your people live there?' But he hadn't known what it meant: links" (229).
In this passage, the word "people" is repeated several times, and we learn that Milkman himself was always filled with "tremor" when he heard this word. This is because he never felt a connection with his own "people" or in other words, his family and black people from other social backgrounds. In this part of the novel, Milkman leaves the confines of Macon Dead's home on a quest for self-discovery, and he meets some of his father's old friend, who tell him stories about his family history. Even though Milkman is trying to become independent, he must also understand his family's history, or the "people" he came from. Overall, this is a turning point in Milkman's life.
I think that Marina and Tiffany made a good point with the loss of the last Butler woman and how she couldn't bear to be 'brought down' to Circe's level. Her pride ended up destroying her, and I think it's notable that the last one left at the end was Circe and not another one of the servants. To me, this shows that she couldn't let go of not only her personal pride by doing servant's tasks, but also the horrible racial pride of her time. The last person she couldn't stand to be beside was Circe, a black woman, because she thought she was most inferior of all. I think Marina and Tiffany summarized that idea of being too proud to live in a way she considered below her well.
Commenting on Winnie Huang and Michelle Ly's explication:
I agree very much. I think this passage perfectly embodies Milkman's materialistic desires, and the resulting detachment from others in life. Money is often equated with freedom by the characters in this book, and this is another example of a character's greed blotting out their other desires. As they said, this is further visible because of Milkman's economic class, raised in a wealthy setting, he sees wealth as the continuation of life, as it is what got him where he is today.
Group 5 Raymond Li & Brian Mahoney Section 41 pp. 233 - 239 "They talked on and on, using Milkman as the ignition that gunned their memories. He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black-haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more.... Never mind you can't tell one line from another, never mind you born a slave, never mind you lose your name, never mind your daddy dead" (235).
The excerpt brought about a legendary image of Milkman's grandfather with some degree of exaggeration into the origins of Macon Dead's life. There is heavy repetition of short descriptive phrases describing Macon Dead as an all-around worker capable of anything in an almost tall-tale fashion and being larger than life. To Milkman and the old folks, Macon Dead is still very much this lively and powerful figure that lives in their minds of someone who stands against the odds and the black stereotype of being poor, with the embodiment of Macon Dead's power being poured into Milkman and Macon Dead Jr.'s current state of being the wealthy blacks. Ironically, their last name, Dead, heavily contrasts with the lively spirit of Macon Dead and the liveliness of the family name as it stands with Milkman, bringing out the true spirit of Milkman's family lineage from this cold, dead-like family devoted to monetary interests and lacking empathy or remorse to this family that is life itself.
I agree with John and Parker about the differences in socioeconomic classes, and the idea of language being used to show the difference between classes, and how Milkman seems to span the divide between economic statuses but remains very unsure about where he really belongs, thus his constant back and forth manner of speaking and how he tries to find a place in both worlds (i.e. working for his father, being best friends with Guitar).
I think the explication is well thought out and concise. Milkman, being a little more above the social-economic class that most of the black community is in. By leaving his comfort zone, I agree that this is a major turning point for Milkman, to discover not only his independence, but his heritage he never truly understood.
I thought it was very interesting that Rae and Beverly compared Circe to Guitar. Originally, I just saw Circe as an old lady that wanted to see everything in the house disintegrate because she was very contemptuous of the wealthy white family that she worked for. However, Rae and Beverly's point about Circe as a replacement of Mrs. Butler to the dogs made me realize that Circe's character represents the triumph of black people over white people. Now, I also see how this connects back to Guitar and his work with the Seven Days. Both have reasons to feel contempt towards white people because of their rough backgrounds; thus, they both share the similar goal of triumphing over white people.
Group 12 Owen Howell, Raymond Pun Section 21 pp. 233-239 "They talked on and on, using Milkman as the ignition that gunned their memories. He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black-haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more .... Never mind you can't tell one letter from another, never mind you born a slave, never mind you lose your name, never mind your daddy dead. (235)
This passage offers insight into the life of Macon Dead by explaining the state of poverty that he was in during his life. With only a few things to his name, Macon symbolizes a success story for the African-American community and serves as an inspiration because he never let the fact that he was once a slave get in his way. His story of success transfers to his own son who becomes the wealthiest African-American in the community. The repetition of "never mind" in the passage seems to serve as encouragement for other blacks in the same position, urging them to forget about their former status and work hard.
Group 14 Caitlin Walsh, Vivian Nguyen Section 41 pp. 219-226 "Everybody wants the life of a black man. Everybody. White men want us dead or quiet - which is the same thing as dead. White women, same thing. They want us, you know, 'universal,' human, no 'race consciousness'.... And black women, the want your whole self. Love, they call it, and understanding" (222).
In this passage, Guitar is explaining to Milkman that everyone wants something from the black man; he's pointing out a figurative slavery in which black men live their lives for other people, and because of this, they are unable to express themselves as individuals. Milkman was the first example that came to our minds because everyone wanted him for something other than himself: his mother wanted him to help fix her marriage, his sisters wanted a plaything, Pilate used him possibly for redemption (her love that would've gone towards her brother goes towards his son), and his Father at first didn't want him at all, and then came to want him only to continue his business. Milkman, throughout the novel, is a symbolism for the typical black man - though not all black men experienced exactly what he experienced, or even to the degree that he has, but Milkman struggles to find his identity, and Guitar is explaining why that is. The relentless repetition of "want" just further emphasizes that nothing is ever done for just themselves; it's always for other people and that takes up their whole selves. Guitar also brings a sort of credibility to his argument because he remains rational; it is clear that he is bitter because of what has happened to him and what he has seen happen to those around him, but he presents his argument calmly and we can't bring ourselves to dismiss it as just something he said in the heat of the moment because he has clearly been thinking about this and piecing together his point for quite some time.
Group 5 Brian Mahoney & Raymond Li Section 41 pp. 233-239
"They talked on and on, using Milkman as the ignition that gunned their memories. The good times, the hard times, things that changed, things that stayed the same- and head and shoulders above it all was the tall, magnificent Macon Dead, whose death, it seemed to him was the beginning of their own dying even though they were young boys at the time. Macon Dead was the farmer they wanted to be, the clever irrigator, the peach tree grower, the hog slaughterer, the wild turkey roaster, the man who could plow forty in no time flat and sang like an angel while he did it. He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and as broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more. Sixteen years later he had one of the best farms in Montour County. A farm that covered their lives like a paintbrush and spoke to them like a sermon. 'You see?' the farm said to them. 'See? See what you can do? Never mind you can't tell one letter from another, never mind you were born a slave, never mind you lose your name, never mind your daddy dead, never mind nothing'" (235).
The passage details the many adversities Milkman's grandfather was able to overcome through hard work and diligence. The use of repetition in the passage illustrates the handicaps faced by Macon Dead I; furthermore the exaggerated details and hyperboles stress his accomplishments. The passage then begins to describe the meaning of the farmhouse; the farmhouse is a testament to Macon Dead I's labors. The anthropomorphic traits of the house, "[speaking] to them"(235) gives the farmhouse an enduring impact on the visitors by giving them a goal to strive for.
Group 11, Section 21 Regarding Cindy and Thinh's explication, I think it is really interesting that they connected the word "people" not only to Milkman's family, but also to other blacks. I had the same passage and stressed the significance of the connection to milkman's familial relationships, but I think that it is also a very valid point that the quote also seems to connect to the way in which Milkman was previously alienated from others in the African-American community. I definitely agree with Cindy and Thinh that this is a turning point in Milkman's life because he is finally discovering "links", not only to his own family, but also to other African-Americans in general.
I agree with Rae and Beverly’s assumption that Circe has a desire to watch the Butler’s house fall to pieces around her. She kept it clean and tidy for many, many years and worked hard. Mrs. Butler, when faced with the choice to either do work like Circe after all of her belongings and life savings were gone or die, she chose death and killed herself. I liked their comparison of Circe and Guitar and how they both chose to show their superiority to whites in personal ways.
I think Brian and Raymond made a good point about the contrast between the wealthy status of the Dead family to that of the lack of remorse and them only thinking about their finanacial value. Even though they are so wealthy, this constrast helps to reveal that the Dead family lacks something.I also agree with their statement that Macon's power/wealth somehow transfers to his son and Milkman. -Owen Howell
Group 12 Section 21 had a passage that related to mine. My group also stated how Macon Dead was the black man that everyone wanted to be because he mad success for himself. He didn't sit around blaming everyone for his problems and decided he would try to fix them. Despite all his hardships he made it big. These ideals of being self sufficient pass on to Macon II and Milkman because they both want better for themselves. Macon believes that owning land and people is the way to success and Milkman wants to leave and be on his own and he wants success also. Because of the strong morals the first Macon set he effected his sons and his grandchild to be the same way and this is very important. Shantel shepard
Caitlin and Vivian used so many supporting details in their explication that they showed a different side of Guitar. By contrasting Guitar and Milkman, the reader can see the stark differences in their beliefs and ideologies. They are two very different characters, even though they would have been labeled the same at the time because they were both black men. Caitlin and Vivian definitely displayed and elaborated upon this in their analysis.
I agree with John and Parker, for Fred and Milkman truly represent the ongoing conflict between city-dwellers and poor workers. Though the two start off their conversation rather casually, Milkman markedly shifts to a more formal tone of speech by the end of the ride. Fred has treated Milkman as an equal thus far, and only wanted to lend him a hand. Hence, Fred is offended when Milkman pointedly asks how much he owes for the ride. Milkman views everything in life in terms of money and value, whereas poorer folks like Fred only want to help out people and lead a sufficient life.
I thought that Brian and Raymond made a good point, commenting on the irony of the Deads' last name. Old Macon Dead at least was hardworking and loved by his entire community. It's ironic that what started off as a mistake made by a drunken Yankee slowly came to truth. Old Macon's death lead to the death of the dreams of those blacks in his community and to the eventual death of his family. I agree with both of them that the Deads are very dead-like and cold now, but that Milkman is trying to revive it.
Group 9, Section 21 I agree with Amanda's and Alice's commentary on Milkshake's hunger for food as a symbol for his appetite for gold. I also believe that his misfortune in the cave acted as reason for him to wake up and put his effort toward something. The quote reminded me of an earlier section of the chapter which referenced Hansel and Gretel. Here Morrison remarked that "A grown man can be energized by hunger, and any weakness in his knees or irregularity in his heartbeat will disappear if he thinks his hunger is about to be assuaged"(219). While Milkman may be let down at the moment, it seems that he will not let this desire go.
Group 6. Barbara De La Cruz and Ines Tamajong Section 41
“Take advantage, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!” (235).
This passage illustrates that as long as the drive and will for great accomplishments exist so does the feasibility. The realization of success embodied in Lincoln’s Heaven is a source of inspiration for the culmination of dreams of the black men in Montour County and beyond. Through short, terse verses such as, “We live here… Nowhere else… Grab it. Grab this land!” it becomes apparent that the opportunity for success exists for all blacks as long as they take advantage of it. Macon Dead I proved that there was no adversity large enough to prevent him from an attempt at a better life. Employing the land as a personified sermon preaching the establishment of ownership as a symbol of personal independence, Morrison extends this ideal to Macon Dead II and his prized collection of keys. His keys symbolize resources put to good use, mirroring the success and philosophy of Macon Dead I.
I liked what Eleanor and Jonlyn said about Guitar's point of view in this passage and how his sarcasm is both pointing out his own feelings on the status of his race, but also on how he wants to perceive it. I think this passage also relates to the growing theme of love and hate in this book. Guitar is probably explaining the frustration he feels about the relationship black men have with other populations by describing it as a love for himself, rather than hatred from everyone else. This is similar to when he is justifying his membership of the days, and how it is out of love rather than hate for others, when really this is Morrison's use of irony, in my opinion. This quote really gave insight into Guitar's feelings.
I agree with what Winnie and Michelle said in their explication about Milkman's materialistic desires to some degree, but part of me also disagrees with them--I don't know if this search of his necessarily shows selfishness above all else. While I do agree that his priveleged upbringing and detatchment from the family, with good reasoning, shows a spoiled side to him, I think it's a personal, internal struggle that is surfacing here and it's a deeper need to finish this journey. Most of me agrees with everything Winnie and Michelle said--I just think it's definitely important to take into account the personal struggles Milkman is going through to identify himself.
Group 6 Ines Tamajong, Barbara De La Cruz Section 41 pg 233-239
“Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!” (235)
The realization of success embodied in Lincoln’s Heaven is a source of inspiration for the culmination of the dreams of black men in Montour County. Through short, terse verses such as, “We live here… Nowhere else… Grab it. Grab this land!” it becomes apparent that the opportunity for success exists for all blacks, proven by Macon Dead, Sr. Through the personification of the land as a sermon, Morrison extends the metaphor to Macon Dead and his collection of keys, preaching the establishment of ownership as a symbol of putting one’s own resources to good use.
I really like the excerpt Raymond and Brian chose from their section of the novel. This excerpt really lets the reader know exactly how significant a character Macon Dead I was. More importantly, however, it reveals what Macon represented to other blacks at that time. While many felt that they could not amount to anything because they were oppressed, Macon was the counter-example. He was able to overcome adversity, become wealthy, and build a great life that represented opportunity for all blacks. In addition, the passage reveals the devastation black community members felt following his murder. I like how Raymond and Brian explain the symbolism of the farmhouse and what it represented.
“Milkman began to shake with hunger. Real hunger, not the less than top-full feeling he was accustomed to, the nervous desire to taste something good. Real hunger. He believed if he didn’t get something to eat that instant he would pass out. He examined the bushes, the branches, the ground for a berry, a nut, anything, But he didn’t know what to look for, nor how they grew” (253).
"At this point, Milkman has finished searching the cave on his quest to find the bags of gold and ends up finding no trace of it. This is the start of his “hunger” for food (figuratively used as a symbol for gold) as he becomes desperate to “eat something” or else he will pass out, which has a second meaning that he will become insane unless he finds the gold. In a sense, the gold is the “food” that will fill Milkman’s stomach and heart’s desires. Although he has no sense of direction, as he is lost in the wilderness, Milkman continues to look for the food that will fill his soul."
I disagree with what Alice and Amanda say. I don't think that there is any symbolic meaning here. I think milkman is just hungry. I dont think it has anything to do with his thirst for gold. After eating 8 hamburgers he then has the idea to go on the hunt to Virginia for gold. I think his hunger overpowers his determination to find gold.
I think that Sally and Daniel brought up some really interesting points in their explication. Milkman has struggled with his issues of feeling as though he doesn't belong anywhere worth belonging for a large portion of the novel. Milkman is now able to feel as though he has something that he can really feel connected to and be proud of. Back in town he often feels as though he has to make apologies and excuses for his family members but in Montour County, he can be proud of his family and where he comes from. I think that his coming back to his roots will be a real turning point for Milkman.
Group 10 Kyle Moore Anderson - Eddy Section 21 258
"She came back before they dumped the Negro they found in the cave. She took the bones, all right; Milkman had seen them on the table in the jailhouse. But that's not all she took. She took the gold. To Virginia. And maybe somebody in Virginia would know. Milkman followed her tracks" (258).
We though this short little passage was pretty straight foreword. It sets the seen for what Milkman is going to do next chapter. We thought it was strange that it referred to Pilate as a "Negro" Instead of using her name. We think that now that milkman has freedom he is going on the adventure not to find gold but to avoid going back home.Hes always wanted to get away and now that he has an excuse to leave he doesn't mind going on a wild goose chase for gold.
I really like the excerpt Raymond and Brian chose from their section of the novel. This excerpt really lets the reader know exactly how significant a character Macon Dead I was. More importantly, however, it reveals what Macon represented to other blacks at that time. While many felt that they could not amount to anything because they were oppressed, Macon was the counter-example. He was able to overcome adversity, become wealthy, and build a great life that represented opportunity for all blacks. In addition, the passage reveals the devastation black community members felt following his murder. I like how Raymond and Brian explain the symbolism of the farmhouse and what it represented.
Group #11 Ruby Sarron, Christina Section 21 "All his life he'd heard the tremorin the word:"I live here, but my people..." or: "She acts like she ain't got no people," or: "Do any of your people live there?" But he hadn't known what it meant: links."
Milkman has left his family in search of independence, flight, but found himselfrooted in the country of his grandfather and his fatherconnecting and strengthening deeper famiy ties. We first defined "people" as related family or blood relatives. We saw a lot of repitition in this passage which we think signifies the importance of family and how it defines a persons character. We saw the italicised word "people" as representing the inevitable presence your past relations and fmaily will have in your life.
I completely agree with Barbara and Ines. That excerpt about seizing what you want and making something of yourself was in awe of Macon Dead and his successes. I think it means exactly what they said in that it shows how all black men can sieze what they want and should. That all black men have the ability to do something great, or to gain anything they want, if only they would strive for it. The two examples they use, Lincolns Heaven and Macon Dead's keys, are perfect for the excerpt. These are concrete things that black men own. These are the symbols of the success a black man could have.
I agree with Michelle and Rominda one what was said of Macon Dead I, and his son. His way of living life after he was freed from slavery reveals where Macon Dead II acquired his philosophy on life of owning things, of taking something and making it your own. I would say that both father and son led a similar as, as they both started their lives with nothing, but steadily cultivated it so that they later became rich and successful. The passage also explains why the Deads are so respected in their community: they show other blacks that it can be done. They show that you can take your life, and turn it from nothing, to something. This seems to be what Milkman now wants to do with his life, he wants to become successful on his own, and make something out of his life.
Rae and Beverly made some very good observations in their explication. A theme in the novel so far seems to be that of the value of material goods, or just value in general. Circe's priorities and those of the Butlers are juxtaposed. The Butlers had all they wanted in money and wealth but they perished and what's left of them is decaying over time. Circe outlived the Butlers and will outlive the house. She did not place value in material wealth the way the Butlers did and she is getting her satisfaction by watching the house deteriorate. Also, as Rae and Beverly said, her desire to see the house decay is her resistance. They drew a great parallel between how Guitar and Circe are resisting their oppression.
Group 14, Laura Wohn and Elizabeth Reardon Section 21 Pg. 219-226 "Look. It's the condition our condition is in. Everybody wants the life of a black man. Everybody. White men want us dead or quiet - which is the same thing as dead. White women, samt thing. They want us, you know, 'universal,' human, no 'race consciousness'" (222).
In this passage, we believe that Guitar is not only giving an explanation to Milkman about why he , but also criticizing the conditions of black peoples' lives. Guitar's perception is that black people are constantly facing expectations from both white and black people. He emphasizes how the lives of black people are controlled and that they lack freedom, and that there's basically nothing worth living for if you're not allowed to take risks. With repetition, terse syntax, rhetorical questions, symbolism (the image of how climbing Mount Everest even isn't "enough"), and even sarcastic humor, Guitar attempts to get his point across to Milkman; he ends his speech with, "What good is a man's life if he can't even choose what to die for?" - referring to how in his own life (from his own harsh childhood to his involvement in the Seven Days) he has no opportunity to make his own choices, but he is always expected or forced to do certain things.
Group 6, Section 21 “Take advantage of it, and if you can’t take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowhere else. We got a home in this rock, don’t you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!” (235)
I think that this passage truly emphasizes how Macon believes that it is so crucial to strive to survive and succeed as a black person. I agree with Aded and Laura that it is evident that Macon’s ambition contrasts with Milkman’s inactiveness. African Americans had the right to own land and live their dreams, but many failed to take the advantage mostly due to fear. With much determination, Macon appears to be quite firm and really tries to make his message clear and persuasive using imperative verbs and commands.
-Laura Wohn
p.s. Sorry about the typo in the previous post...forgot to add "thinks that people want their 'living lives'" after "about why he" in the first sentence!
I agree with Laura and Aded's excplication, as I thought it was interesting how aspects of the theme of the American Dream were included in Song of Solomon. It shows the characters desire to catch up to the white people, to break out of the mold they've been stuck in, and to change the way black people are viewed. They don't necessarily want to be more like white people, they just want all the oppurtunities that white people seem to inately have, one of which being the right to seek the american dream. This desire to "catch up" is also shown in the urgency of the tone, which Laura and Aded discussed. -Andrea Maistros
Group 2: Khadeejah Clemons, Danielle Santos Section 41
"Everybody wants the life of a black man. Everybody. White men want us dead or quiet- which is the same thing as dead. White women, same thing. They want us, you know, 'universal,' human, no 'race consciousness'....And black women the want your whole self. Love, they call it, and understanding"(222).
Guitar is trying to convince Milkman that wanting to distance himself from the rest of his family is a good thing because he is the only person that can help himself. This passage relates to the rest of the novel in many cases but particularly regarding Milkman's grandfather, who was shot and killed by a wealthy white family because he was a black sharecropper. The black man has no rights and everyone is against beside himself. After Milkman and Guitar's talk, their usual high-five is weak showing that the trust between them is gone and it is everyman for himself now. The allusion to Hansel and Gretel on page 219 symbolizes Milkman finding self-understanding and his family's complex history with Circe's guidance. Also, the dreary and haunting atmosphere adds to the chilling effect of this passage overall.
Group 8, Section 41 I agree with Rae and Beverly, because the Butlers were money-hungry and only valued materialistic things while Circe valued life itself. I felt that it was quite morbid that she would stay at their house just to watch it disintegrate. I also agree with their connection with Circe to Guitar since they both are triumphant over whites but in two different ways. Circe's way is by taking over the Butler family's wealth and Guitar murder the 'innocent' white people.
"Then he watched signs - the names of towns that lay twenty-two miles ahead, seventeen miles to the east, five miles to the northeast. And the names of junctions, creeks, landings, parks, and lookout points" (226).
In this passage, Milkman is on the Greyhound bus looking out the window as he's on his way to Danville. He originally was paying attention to the setting around him but quickly became bored. Soon enough he began to pay close attention to the small details of things that lie ahead of him. Milkman has always wanted to move forward throughout the whole novel and so when he starts paying attention to what lies ahead of him it shows that he is no longer behind and that he is progressing.
I agree with Adedolapo and Laura when the refer to the American Dream and how that influenced the Deads' goals to be successful. Especially for Macon II, after his father was murdered because he was a successful African American farmer, it seemed as though Macon II wanted to make him proud and follow the American Dream. The quote refers to taking advantage of the opportunities that are available because it's their right. I definitely agree that this passage alludes to the hopes of success by Macon Dead I and tells us why Macon Jr. was so apt to make sure he did well for himself. I also agree that the passage is stating that African Americans do have the right to own land etc. and that by being successful one would be happy.
I disagree with Alice and Amanda that Milkman's "hunger" figuratively is for the gold. I believe it is figurative, but for answers. Milkman at this point seems to want answers more than the gold, although in the beginning of his travels, Milkman seemed to want the gold most, and that seemed to be his major goal. Milkman has a hunger for answers about his father's family. He wants to know for himself who his father and Pilate are, as in where they have come from and who is telling the truth about them. He has been so misguided and told so many things about his father and PIlate by both of them and Ruth. He needs to know at this point who they are, and where is the gold. He wants to know if Pilate really would have taken the gold, and basically now, he is just looking for answers.
"Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!" (235)
I find it interesting that in the passage it says that we got a home in this rock. A rock is hard and sturdy but it is unusual word to use when describing a home. However, I think the use of the word rock describes perfectly the struggle of the African-Americans. They are sturdy hard workers yet the life they live is not a comfortable one. They must struggle and yet be satisfied with never living the comfortable lives that whites live. This passage makes the reader understand more the mindset of Macon Dead and why he feels the need to own things and people. The use of the exclamation marks and the use of the word “grab” makes it seem that owning this land is vital and critical to the existence of African-Americans.
"Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!" (235)
I find it interesting that in the passage it says that we got a home in this rock. A rock is hard and sturdy but it is unusual word to use when describing a home. However, I think the use of the word rock describes perfectly the struggle of the African-Americans. They are sturdy hard workers yet the life they live is not a comfortable one. They must struggle and yet be satisfied with never living the comfortable lives that whites live. This passage makes the reader understand more the mindset of Macon Dead and why he feels the need to own things and people. The use of the exclamation marks and the use of the word “grab” makes it seem that owning this land is vital and critical to the existence of African-Americans.
I agree with Khadeejah and Danielle when they say that the weak high five is because of the lack of trust but I believe it is also because of thier polar opposite beliefs. Their ideas of differ so greatly that it is wedging a divide in their relationship. This difference of ideas is clear in the scene where Milkman and Guitar talk about what they would do if they found the gold. It seems that as they grow up Milkman and Guitar differences in socioeconomic status are making them grow apart and this is what caused the "weak high-five" . - Vanessa Omoroghomwan
Group 13 Nora Hayes, Randy Coplin Sec. 21 pp. 233-239
“Take advantage, and if you can’t take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowhere else. We got a home in this rock, don’t you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!” (235).
In this passage, the land of Lincoln’s Heaven talks directly to the black residents of Danville, giving them hope. In direct opposition to the ideology behind the Seven Days, it says that black people do have the power to change their situation and create better lives for themselves and their children. It demonstrates why, after white people took Lincoln’s Heaven, the black people began “dying.” Without the hope that the land gave them, they began to believe that whites had all the power and always would.
I agree with Khadeejah and Danielle that Guitar is trying to convince Milkman to distance himself from the rest of his family, since Guitar never particularly liked the rest of Milkman’s family anyway. I also agree that the passage shows the beginning of the disintegration of the trust between Guitar and Milkman when their normal high-five is weak.
I find it interesting that in the passage it says that we got a home in this rock. A rock is hard and sturdy but it is unusual word to use when describing a home. However, I think the use of the word rock describes perfectly the struggle of the African-Americans. They are sturdy hard workers yet the life they live is not a comfortable one. They must struggle and yet be satisfied with never living the comfortable lives that whites live. This passage makes the reader understand more the mindset of Macon Dead and why he feels the need to own things and people. The use of the exclamation marks and the use of the word “grab” makes it seem that owning this land is vital and critical to the existence of African-Americans.
"Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!" (235)
Macon Dead's farm, Lincoln's Heaven, and his success due to it, reminds the residents of Danville that they have just as much right to live out their own version of the American dream as a white man. Most of the residents of Danville during this period would have been newly freed slaves, and they would have lacked hope for a successful future due to their past. But seeing Macon Dead start the farm from almost nothing and making it into such a success would have inspired the rest of the town. Macon Dead is their example of success and, therefor,e when he is killed and his farm is taken from him by a rich white family, it kills the hopes and dreams of living out the American dream that had been inspired by Macon Dead. His death shows them that although they have been freed from slavery, their situation has not improved, and most likely it never will.
Ciaran Foley Section 21 pp. 246-252 "'Finally she couldn't take it anymore. The thought of having no help, no money--well, she couldn't take that. She had to let everything go. ... No, she didn't let me go. She killed herself'" (247).
In this passage Circe is responding to Milkman's criticisms of her in which he insinuates that she enjoyed her life as a maid and that she even loved the Butler family she worked for. She shows how in the end she proved that she was stronger than the Butlers as they slowly died off until the last heiress killed herself rather than be reduced to performing her own housework. In this passage Milkman's hypocrisy is highlighted. Milkman has never done real manual work in his life. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and, through his father's properties, has "owned" his fellow black people. Yet here he is criticizing a woman who has struggled to survive her entire life, who is many years his elder (and maybe dead/a ghost?), and who saved the lives of his father and aunt. It is interesting that the Butler woman chose to end her life by jumping off the landing. This mirrors Mr. Smith's leap from (for) Mercy and foreshadows Milkman's leap at the end of the book, but it has a much more negative connotation. Overall this passage is another example of how the women around Milkman have an awareness that he lacks, even though they all find themselves somehow in his power.
"He knew that an old woman had lived in it once, but he saw no signs of life there now. He was oblivious to the universe of wood life that did live there in layers of ivy grown so thick he could have sunk his arm in it up to the elbow. Life that crawled, life that slunk and crept and never closed its eyes."
Milkman cannot see what is going on around him. He is surrounded by events that he did not care for. He had always listened to the stories that made up his father's life, which in turn made up a big portion of his own life but never paid close attention to the detail. He wouldn't be able to see the truth ("wood life") if it hit him in the face ("layers of ivy grown so thick he could have sunk his arm in it").
Nora and Randy made a powerful statement with their passage and its explication and I completely agree with the idea behind it. The black community wanted to have as much power as the whites did and the hope of power is conveyed in that passage as they accurately describe.
I agree with Vivian and Caitlin on what it means that "everybody wants something from a black man." However I think there is an irony in the statement which they did not address. Guitar insists that black women want black men all to themselves, with no other joys in life. While there is evidence for this in the book, especially with Hagar's cyclical stalking of Milkman, it can also plainly be seen that it is the black women who suffer most at the hands of the men. Reba gives everything valuable that she wins to men, but she is still pushed around and beaten up until Pilate steps in. Ruth gives her whole self to her father. When her father dies, she tries to give herself to her husband but he is disgusted by her and treats her harshly. Pilate tries to settle with the island people and with a man she loves, but she knows her physical oddity will prevent her from this eventually. Hagar is the one who is consumed by her love for Milkman. She is the one who is mocked, hated, and finally destroyed because of her feelings for Milkman. Throughout the book, although black women want the entirety of black men, it is they themselves who suffer for this, not the men. --Ciaran Foley
[ABSENT] Group 3, Thu Tran and Maria Terzis Section 21
"Then he watched signs - the names of towns that lay twenty-two miles ahead, seventeen miles to the east, five miles to the northeast. And the names of junctions, creeks, landings, parks, and lookout points" (226).
Milkman observes the scenery running past his bus window for as long as his curiosity can last him. For that fleeting moment, there is nothing else he can do at this moment but to sit back and simply stare transfixed at the “signs” that are in front of him. Just by this description of the scenery, there seems to be a “old” Milkman and a “new” Milkman. From money to women, nothing had interested Milkman, but now that he obtained a goal; it almost consumes him. Because of this determination to find the gold, he is watchful of his surroundings. By noticing the names of the creeks and lookout points and by providing numbers, Milkman can start to link his family to the truth since the entire novel puts emphasis behind names and details. The "signs" which he watches could be an example of word play; it can signify the physical signs he passes along the road or the figurative signs which points him in a direction towards uncovering his roots.
Caitlin and Vivian’s explication of this passage is well thought out and supported. When reading the passage for the first time, I thought Guitar was talking about the typical black man, as he usually does when he talks to Milkman about the Seven Days. I definitely agree that Milkman fits all of the criteria; his parents want him to hate the other, his sisters want him to change, and Hagar wants his love. I never really labeled Guitar’s words as credible since his actions and beliefs are far too extreme to be considered so, but he does seems rational and level-headed. He has some truth in what he says, and they are not just words of a madman. Thu Tran
{absent} Michaela Bosch Group 2 Section 41 Page 222
"Everybody wants the life of a black man....And black women, they want your whole self. Love, they call it, and understanding."
This passage is the preface to Guitar's explanation of the Seven Days. In it, he tries to convince Milkman that the 'condition' that every black man is in is one where everyone wants something from him but they don't want to give anything to him. White men and women and black women all want them to pour themselves into an appropriate little mold of quietness. Whites want them subservient or dead, and black women want them to be entirely devoted. "Black women, they what your whole self", he says. Guitar's tone is angry and fed-up. This paragraph explains why he feels the need to join the Seven Days. It's before he gets into the bizarre sense of 'justice that the Days live by, which means that these are his own personal reasons.
Group 2 Section 41 I agree with Ellie and Jonlyn, who had the same segment as me. they made a good point when they said, "The informal language suggests that this is Guitar’s honest opinion, and his use of repetition emphasizes his point. His tone is somewhat sarcastic and is very cynical; he only sees the bad in these people, who he claims all want “the life of a black man” (222)." I don't know if it was repetition as much as it was redundancy. He didn't speak very eloquently, but his emotions really came through. Michaela Bosch
Group 12
ReplyDeleteGordon Hall, Shantel Shepard
Section. 41
Pg.233-239
"They talked on and on, using Milkman as the ignition that gunned their memories. He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black-haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more .... Never mind you can't tell one letter from another, never mind you born a slave, never mind you lose your name, never mind your daddy dead. (235)
This passage basically sums up the African American struggle in the early 1900's. Milkmans grandfathers story is the success story that every struggling black person wants and needs to hear. Despite all his hardships he stayed determined to make a better life for himself and his family. When the men say, "He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black-haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more" the pride in their voices that Morrison creates is palpable. His grandfathers success impacts the way milmans father lives and therefore the way Milkman lives.
Group 8
ReplyDeleteRae Taylor-Burns, Beverly Nguyen
Section 41
Pg 246-252
"They loved it. Stole for it, lied for it, killed for it. But I'm the one left. Me and the dogs. And I will never clean it again. Never. Nothing. Not a speck of dust, not a grain of dirt, will I move.
In this passage, Circe emphasizes how much the Butlers valued wealth and glamour, and points out the irony that though they were extremely rich, not one of them is living, and she, who does not care at all for riches, is left living in the remains of their wealth. She explains that she is only staying there so she can watch it disintegrate, and her repetition of the words "never, nothing" expresses her nihilistic desire to see the Butler's property fall to pieces. Like Guitars triumph over whites with the Seven Days, her refusal to clean shows her personal triumph over the Butler family. This is enhanced by the dogs' loyalty to her, which allows her to think of herself as a replacement of Mrs. Butler.
Group 8 Section 41
ReplyDeleteI agree with Gordon and Shantel's explication. I also think that when Milkman hears the other me talk about his grandfather with such pride, he himself becomes more proud of his family and his history. I don't think that Milkman had realized what his family had accomplished before he heard these men remembering his grandfather, but once he hears their perspective on his family, he has a sense of pride of being a member of the Dead family
Rae Taylor-Burns
Group 5
ReplyDeleteStephanie Brown and Leisa Loan
Section 21
pp. 233 - 239
"They talked on and on, using Milkman as the ignition that gunned their memories. He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black-haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more.... Never mind you can't tell one line from another, never mind you born a slave, never mind you lose your name, never mind your daddy dead" (235).
The purpose of this passage is to demonstrate how the story of Macon Dead inspired all the men and then took it away; the men are resigned to their lives of inequality and hopelessness. It is written like a sermon of the hope the farm gave, but when directed toward Milkman it falls on deaf ears. This relates to the rest of the story because Milkman usually does not exhibit feelings towards anything. The repetition in this passage emphasizes the "sermon's" reminder to forget the past and the simile of Milkman "as the ignition" demonstrates how they are using Milkman to bring their hope alive again. Lastly, the phrase "never mind your daddy dead" has a double meaning; it refers not only to Macon Dead Sr. but also the Macon Dead, Milkman's father and is directed towards Milkman.
Group 5
ReplyDeleteSection 21
Rae and Beverly made very good points in their explication that I hadn't thought of. Morisson usage of irony here is a really nice touch. Her refusal to clean showing her triumph is a good point, and it emphasis how much these people are willing to do to get back at the people who wronged them. Circe lives the rest of her days in a crumbling house solely to watch what was once important to the people she hates fall to pieces.
Stephanie Brown
Group 13, Michelle Howard and Rominda Debarros
ReplyDeleteSect. 41
pp. 233-239
"Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!" (235)
This passage describes how Macon (I) made a life for himself out of nothing and refused to accept a lower position in society because he was black. He was admired by the community and by his son (especially) for doing this, which is how it became Macon (II)'s philosophy on life. This relats to the rest of the novel because it explains Macon (II)'s obsession with money and with owning things--which previously just seemed like greed. The emphasis of the punctuation and the use of 1st person shows that this philosophy on life inspired the whole community, and it's why the Dead family was so respected in Montour County.
Group 12 Section 41
ReplyDeleteI thougt it was interesting to see how Stephanie and Leisa focused on different parts of their quote from Gordon and Shantel. I agree that Milkman's father had a success story that everyone needed to hear, but I also think that the end result was more demoralizing because he had everything taken away. The community was able to take hope from his story, but not quite able to take away the courage required to do that themselves. Especially after they saw what happened to Milkman's grandfather, I think many of them went back to living in fear.
Michelle Howard
Group 7
ReplyDeleteMarina Napoletano & Tiffany Fonseca
Section 41
pp. 246-252
"Finally she couldn't take it anymore. The thought of having ho help, no money--well, she couldn't take that. She had to let everything go...She didn't let me go. She killed herself." (247)
This passage was meant to emphasize the contempt and fear Circe's wealthy, upper-class employer had for the people and lifestyle of the lower classes. The woman Circe describes loses all of her money and is so horrified at the thought of having to live without servants and a huge, spare-no-expense mansion in perfect, gleaming condition that she kills herself...not before letting all of her servants go except Circe. The repetition of "couldn't take it" and "letting go" in various forms emphasize the loss of status, and the unbearable nature of having to let go of one's pride. This is important with relation to the rest of the book because pride and class issues concerning Milkman and his peers tend to be prevalent motifs throughout the novel.
Group 7 s. 41
ReplyDeleteI agree strongly with Michelle and Rominda's explication. For the first part of the novel I, too, wrote Macon II's desire to own things off as greed. I just assumed he'd be a villain of sorts because he was so obsessed with money and keys and owning houses and people and things and, most importantly, himself, because his father had been killed for not being able to own himself above all things. I agree that Macon II's desire to own things also comes from his admiration of the efforts and success of his father to own property and maintain a sizeable piece of land.
-Marina Napoletano
Group 8
ReplyDeletesection 21
"They loved it. Stole for it, lied for it, killed for it. But I'm the one left. Me and the dogs. And I will never clean it again. Never. Nothing. Not a speck of dust, not a grain of dirt, will I move" (247).
This passage is a summary of the feelings of almost every character in the novel. All of them are forced to be or do something that they do not want. Milkman wants the money to get out, Guitar wants to "keep the ratio" because he is unhappy with his station, and Hagar wants Milkman but since she can't have him, no one can. In this paragraph, Circe is done with the work she was forced to do all her life to pay for food. "Never. Nothing," she says, showing the negativity felt by all the characters for their lot in life and the people who make them do things. In Guitar and Circe's cases, this is the white people, for Milkman it is his mother and father, and for Hagar it is her feelings for Milkman which she hopes will disappear along with his death. Circe is taking a stand against the role that she has been fit into and standing witness against those who seek to control her by outlasting them (her employers) so that she may ensure the destruction of their legacy (aka their house).
group 8 section 21
ReplyDeleteI also strongly agree with Michelle and Rominda. Macon (II) is so afraid that his son is not going to "seize the day" as he did and that Milkman will end up like the very lower level black people that Macon (II) has tried to separate himself from. He is so afraid of this that from a very early age he has impressed upon Milkman the importance of doing everything he can to make his impact in the world. If Milkman is not able to do this then Macon (II) will take him back into his home so that his son will not be a failure and he will have therefore failed as a father. Because of the pressure from his father to succeed, Milkman becomes obsessed with the idea of getting Pilate's gold. He is slowly but surely turning into his father even though this scares him, causing him to want to leave home even more. Macon (II) and now Milkman's greed is run by the fear of failure.
-Meredith Brown
Group 2, Eleanor Harte and Jonlyn Englert, Section #21
ReplyDeletepp 219 – 226
“Everybody wants the life of a black man. Everybody. White men want us dead or quiet – which is the same things as dead. White women, same thing. They want us, you know, ‘universal,’ human, no ‘race consciousness’….And black women, they want your whole self. Love, they call it, and understanding”
This passage refers to the way that Guitar thinks of the state of black men, as he explains it to Milkman. The informal language suggests that this is Guitar’s honest opinion, and his use of repetition emphasizes his point. His tone is somewhat sarcastic and is very cynical; he only sees the bad in these people, who he claims all want “the life of a black man” (222). This passage seems to echo Guitar’s tone on page 60, when he says that he doesn’t “give a damn about names”. This passage relates to the novel because it emphasizes the black man’s struggle in absolute terms; Guitar is finally telling Milkman the problems of their race and how they affect Guitar himself.
Rae & Beverly bring up a good point that Circe is living in the house just to watch the Butlers' wealth decay. While I had at first noticed the juxtaposition between Circe risking her life to help Macon and Pilate while Mrs.Butler killed herself rather than bruise her pride, Rae & Beverly's explication lead me to make the connection between Mrs. Butler killing herself because of her ego and Circe wasting her life because of her hate for the Butlers.
ReplyDeleteTaylor Laffey
Group 2 Section #21
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rae and Beverly's explication, and I believe that they made some very good points. The way they thought about Morrison's use of language (ie, repetition) is important; I didn't think of it until they said it. I also like their point that Circe's triumph connects with Guitar's triumph; that's a good relation to the rest of the novel.
Eleanor Harte
Group 6, Adedolapo Abioye and Laura Dinardo
ReplyDeleteSection 12
pp.233-239
"Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!" (235)
This passage reveals the desire for the American dream in the black people of Milkman's grandfather's time and how Macon Dead I was able to accomplish that dream. The passage states that African Americans had as much right as anyone to own land and have ambitions as well; all they had to do was take it. The passage opens a window into Macon Dead I's character and the reason for his ambition, it also serves to juxtapose Macon's thought process to Milkman's sendentary processes. A sense of urgency is conveyed in the passage through the use of long flowing sentences intermingled with short stacato sentences, commands, and action verbs.
Group 3 Section #41
ReplyDeleteMonica Bulger and Caytie Campbell-Orrock
"Then he watched signs - the names of towns that lay twenty-two miles ahead, seventeen miles to the east, five miles to the northeast. And the names of junctions, creeks, landings, parks, and lookout points" (226).
As Milkman moves deeper into the country, he remains detached from the rural surroundings he feels superior to. He becomes more observant and focused on numbers, much like Guitar. He might be looking to recognize something on the signs he watches (not reads), hoping for a link or a simple solution to his quest.
I found Eleanor and Jonlyn's analysis particularly interesting because of how it related to things that Guitar previously said. The explication shows that Guitar joining the Seven Days was not an abrupt and unexplainable event, but instead a manifestation of his frustration with his race's oppression. Guitar is explaining his motivations to Milkman and it seems possible that his explanation could influence Milkman's future actions.
ReplyDeleteMonica Bulger
Group 6, Section 21
ReplyDeleteI agree with Jonlyn and Eleanore's assesment of their passage, it very much reveals how guitar feels about the state of black men in very stark terms. it also reveals how Guitar often only looks at things in a single point of view, something he also did in page 60 as they mentioned. on page 60 Guitar seems only to focus on the fact that black people have been oprpressed in the country for hundreds of years, Guitar thinks that he and the rest of the days are the only people doing anything thing about, completly ignoring the fact the civil rights movement is in full swing and other people are working tirelessly for the rights of black people. it is the same here on pg.220 he says that everyone wants to kill a black man except black men themselves, again totally ignoring the fact that they days would rather ask a fellow black man to die or allow him to crazy before stopping what they are doing. Guitar is sometimes as selfish as Milkman in the sense that he only thinks about his own pain and struggle. he refuses to think that there are decent white people who face the same struggles as he does, oh no to him there are only decent black MEN, unless they "think like a white man" of course.
Adedolapo Abioye
Group 13 s.41
ReplyDeleteI agree with Eleanor and Jonlyn's point on Guitar's kind of cynical tone when stating his perception of everyone around him. It seems as if his beliefs on what everyone else wants makes him bitter in a way. I think it also brings to light, once again, Guitar's reasoning for going to extremes such as joining the Seven days. Guitar ultimately feels as if he just can't win, all of the stresses from society make it impossible for him to live freely.
- Rominda deBarros
Group 9
ReplyDeleteAmanda Ruiz and Alice Chan
Section 21
“Milkman began to shake with hunger. Real hunger, not the less than top-full feeling he was accustomed to, the nervous desire to taste something good. Real hunger. He believed if he didn’t get something to eat that instant he would pass out. He examined the bushes, the branches, the ground for a berry, a nut, anything, But he didn’t know what to look for, nor how they grew” (253).
At this point, Milkman has finished searching the cave on his quest to
find the bags of gold and ends up finding no trace of it. This is the
start of his “hunger” for food (figuratively used as a symbol for
gold) as he becomes desperate to “eat something” or else he will pass
out, which has a second meaning that he will become insane unless he
finds the gold. In a sense, the gold is the “food” that will fill
Milkman’s stomach and heart’s desires. Although he has no sense of
direction, as he is lost in the wilderness, Milkman continues to look
for the food that will fill his soul.
Group 1
ReplyDeleteZoe Cuipylo-Watkins and Maya Nojechowicz
Section 21
"He knew that an old woman had lived in it once, but he saw no signs of life there now. He was oblivious to the universe of wood life that did live there in layers of ivy grown so thick he could have sunk his arm in it up to the elbow. Life that crawled, life that slunk and crept and never closed its eyes" (219-20).
The meaning of this passage is that even in a place that appears to be dead, there is still life. It achieves this purpose by introducing us to how Milkman sees the world, and how he is blind to the life in this spot. It then goes on to show us what is actually there, employing contrast. Milkman is so focused on his goal, ignoring everything else, as his hunger for gold blinds him to everything else. The life here is also portrayed as sinister, using personification, and it can't really be destroyed, similar to Milkman himself.
Group 5, Section 21
ReplyDeleteI agree a lot with what Adedolapo, Laura, Michelle, and Rominda all said. It was really interesting to see Macon (II) through the eyes of people who knew him when he was younger and to better understand where his need to own things came from. It gives his character a lot more depth and makes you think he might be more than just the greedy man Milkman sees him as. This passage reflects the sentiments of his father, Macon I, to not be kept down because he was black and Macon II is now carrying those sentiments with him in his own life. Giving reason to Macon II’s ambition really changes the way he is viewed as a character to a certain extent.
Leisa Loan
Group 6 Section 21
ReplyDeleteI agree with Amanda and Alice's observation that in the passage on p.253. The "food" that Milkman is looking for when he emerges from the cave is not a physical hunger, but instead a mental one. The more he looks for the gold, the more he wants it and thinks about it. Also, this suddenness of emotion is one that has already been experienced by Milkman when thinking of the gold. The first time this happens, he is talking with the old men in Reverend Cooper's house about Macon and all that he has. All of a sudden Milkman is overcome with a strong desire to go out and find the gold. As soon as this though registers in his brain, he will do anything to fulfill this wish. Similarly, Milkman's hunger hits him after emerging from the cave. Again, he will do anything to satisfy this wish, even if it means eating twigs and dirt. Therefore, because of the parallel between these two situations in which Milkman is overcome with a desire and a will to satisfy it, I agree that the "food" in this sense that Milkman believes he really needs is gold. He also shows that is willing to go through really everything to get it.
Laura DiNardo
Group 6, Section 12
ReplyDeleteI agree with Aded and Laura on how the passage is talking about the American Dream to all black people and how Macon I was able to achieve it. I liked how they analyzed the syntax to show that there is urgency in the black people's quest for their American Dream that whites haven't allowed them to possess.
Amanda Ruiz
Winnie and Michelle bring up an interesting point in reference to Milkman's illogical mindset regarding the gold. I agree that he is driven to Virginia wholeheartedly by selfish purposes so much so that it makes me question the inevitability of Milkman's reconnection with his family's past and whether that might truly be the reasoning behind his blind hunt for the gold. His purposeful detachment from his immediate family, further suggests that there’s more to be determined about Milkman’s discovery of extended family ties, considering he’s traveling to Virgina, where part of Pilate's life is permanently embedded.
ReplyDeleteBarbara De La Cruz
Group 6, Section 21
ReplyDeleteI think Aded and Laura made a good connection between the desire for a home by African Americans and the American Dream. Macon I’s passion and ambitions are evident in his advice to “Grab it. Grab this land!” (235). Analyzing this passage also gives you insight into Macon II’s outlook on life, which Aded and Laura mentioned, and provides a little more background into why he acts this way and how it influences Milkman.
Michelle Ly
Group 6, Section 21
ReplyDeleteI agree with Adedolapo and Laura’s analysis of their passage, especially their point that “all they [African Americans] had to do was take it [the right as anyone to own land and have ambitions]. After reading this passage and the analysis, I better understand how Macon Dead, Milkman’s father, has come to be the person he is – a man who desires to own his own things and own other people. From reading the passage, I feel the senses of determination and courage behind the words, and I think that these senses have encouraged and galvanized Milkman’s father to own houses, own a car, and have material items that are rare for a Black man to own at this time period. Just as Milkman’s grandfather had “grabbed” a large amount of farmland, Milkman’s own father Macon Dead has accomplished a similar feat by “grabbing” the land on which his house is built and the lands of the many houses that he owns.
Alice Chan
Group 7
ReplyDeleteIsmael Saib, Taylor Laffey Sec. 21
pp.246-252
Passage:"finally she couldn't take it anymore. The thought of having no help, no money-well, she couldn't take that. She had to let everything go...she didn't let me go. She killed herself." (247)
Though the passage Circe's boss is shown to value her prode more than her own life. She refused to work and killed herself rather than lower herself to servant standards. This is directly contrasted with the next passage which describes Milkman's arduous journey to attain money.
Group 1, Section 21
ReplyDeleteI agree with Amanda and Alice in that Milkman becomes even hungrier for gold after his empty search in the cave. However, I think that hunger represents more than just his need for gold. It is the first time Milkman seems to strongly want anything. He comes alive, whereas before he was always portrayed as self-serving, or oblivious, or nonchalant. The gold awakens a hunger in him for his own life, to split apart from his father, and accomplish something on his own. The greed causes him to grow up. The harder he tries to find the gold, the more he wants it, and the more he wants it for himself and not because Macon wants him to get it.
Maya Nojechowicz
Group 4
ReplyDeleteSally Gao and Daniel Imahiyerobo
Section 41
p. 226-233
“All his life he’d heard the tremor in the word: “I live here, but my people…” or: “She acts like she ain’t got no people,” or: “Do any of your people live there?” But he hadn’t known what it meant: links” (229).
The passage expresses Milkman’s feeling of belonging somewhere for the first time- he feels more connected now than ever before to his family because the people from Danville have brought life to his past. Just before this passage Milkman “smiled apologetically” (229) because of his bizarre name, Macon Dead, but when he sees that Reverend Cooper recognizes his name, he appreciates it greatly and lets “his shoulders slump” (229), a sign of relaxation and comfort with him. The use of the word ‘people’ in italics and the anaphora of the word itself emphasizes how significant this moment is: it is the first time Milkman truly feels any emotional attachment to his family, and even a connection to these Danville townspeople he just met because they know his history. Later on in the chapter, it becomes clear that by becoming acquainted with the people of his past, Milkman has developed a newfound respect for his heritage and background, surprising himself by being outraged over his grandfather’s death at the hands of avaricious white men.
I think Monica and Caytie made good points about Milkman's bus ride and what he sees and thinks during that time, especially their point about detachment. Everything is in some other direction, not near where he is. I think that applies not only to Milkman's sense of superiority and isolation in the rural setting, but throughout the novel. He has nothing that he is committed to in his life. His father has his business, Milkman has the Seven Days, but Milkman remains detached from everything, possibly because of his sense of superiority or because of a reluctance to commit. The image of the road signs shown here demonstrates his lack of individual place and purpose.
ReplyDeleteParker Wilson Section 41
Group 1, Kathleen Gillespie and Kylie Nagle.
ReplyDeleteSection 41. pp.216-226
"He knew that an old woman had lived in it once, but he saw no signs of life there now. He was oblivious to the universe of wood life that did live there in layers of ivy grown so thick he could have sunk in it up to the elbow. Life that crawled, life that slunk and crept and never closed its eyes" (219-20).
In this passage Milkman is oblivious to the true life that surrounds him and cannot see past the fact that no human life exists. In the greater context of the novel this relates to the fact that he often is ignorant to thins going on right around him. He fails to truly understand his history when he is younger and at his present stage he fails to understand his family and cannot see past his own perceptions of them therefore missing the truths about them going on right in front of him. The ivy and wood life in this passage are symbols for his family members whom he does not pay enough attention to to understand.
Group 10 Section 41
ReplyDeleteTo comment on Winnie and Michelle’s explication, I agree with the idea of Milkman’s “logical reasoning” and his materialistic desires. What strikes me is that the issue at hand is the remains of his very own grandfather and his resting place, and yet Milkman dwells little on this. Instead he seems very detached from his family. He doesn’t refer to them by name, but by “she” and “Negro” and seems to be only interested in the gold. He acts like someone who dismisses a car accident on the road as he rushes to get badly needed groceries at the store- but he people in the accident are his aunt and grandfather. Yet I agree that this rather wealthy young man’s following of his aunt’s tracks will only bring him face to face with his own history.
Tiffany Fonseca
Group 9
ReplyDeleteJohn Margaris, Parker WIlson
Section 41
pp.252-258
Passage: "What do I owe you? For the Coke and all?"
The man was smiling, but his face changed now. "My name's Garnett, Fred Garnett. I ain't got much, but I can afford a Coke and a lift now and then"... Mr. Garnett had reached over and closed the door. Milkman could see him shaking his head as he drove off." (225)
This excerpt demonstrated the conflict between the customs of two different socio-economic classes, Milkman representing the wealthier city-dwellers, and Fred Garnett the poorer rural class. These differences are not an issue until Milkman brings money into the conversation, and it is the issue of money that offends Garnett. When money becomes part of the (short) relationship, prejudices are drawn out in both of them: We can infer that Garnet's immediate reaction to Milkman is a result of previous experiences, grievances, and opinions; and that Milkman's preoccupation with money and his need to pay Garnett for his services are a result of his higher station. Also The syntax in this excerpt is fascinating, because regardless of social class or clothing, Milkman had previously been brought to his knees (in need of food, drink, and transportation). His language is short and improper, and the slang he uses places him on the same level as Garnett. By the end here, however, he has reverted to his proper speech... further accenting the culture gap and the offer of money, offending Garnett.
Group 1, Section 41.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Amanda and Alice on their point that his hunger is truly a symbolism for his hunt for the gold. I think it is a desire for him and something he now feels necessary to his survival to find. I also think that Sally and Daniel bring up a good point regarding Milkman finally feeling a connection. My passage symbolized his distance from his past and his inability to truly see his family for who they are. Therefore, I agree with them that here he finally is able to feel a true connection to them and is grateful to them for being able to tell him about his family history. Finally,I agree with Rae and Beverly about Circe because I too think that this book is trying to show wealth it not everything as it leads to the downfall of many characters.
Kathleen Gillespie
Group 11
ReplyDeleteCindy Guan and Thinh Nguyen
Section 41
"All his life he'd heard the tremor in the word: 'I live here, but my people...' or :'She acts like she ain't got no people,' or 'Do any of your people live there?' But he hadn't known what it meant: links" (229).
In this passage, the word "people" is repeated several times, and we learn that Milkman himself was always filled with "tremor" when he heard this word. This is because he never felt a connection with his own "people" or in other words, his family and black people from other social backgrounds. In this part of the novel, Milkman leaves the confines of Macon Dead's home on a quest for self-discovery, and he meets some of his father's old friend, who tell him stories about his family history. Even though Milkman is trying to become independent, he must also understand his family's history, or the "people" he came from. Overall, this is a turning point in Milkman's life.
Group 4, Section 41
ReplyDeleteI think that Marina and Tiffany made a good point with the loss of the last Butler woman and how she couldn't bear to be 'brought down' to Circe's level. Her pride ended up destroying her, and I think it's notable that the last one left at the end was Circe and not another one of the servants. To me, this shows that she couldn't let go of not only her personal pride by doing servant's tasks, but also the horrible racial pride of her time. The last person she couldn't stand to be beside was Circe, a black woman, because she thought she was most inferior of all. I think Marina and Tiffany summarized that idea of being too proud to live in a way she considered below her well.
Sally Gao
Group 9
ReplyDeleteSection 41
Commenting on Winnie Huang and Michelle Ly's explication:
I agree very much. I think this passage perfectly embodies Milkman's materialistic desires, and the resulting detachment from others in life. Money is often equated with freedom by the characters in this book, and this is another example of a character's greed blotting out their other desires. As they said, this is further visible because of Milkman's economic class, raised in a wealthy setting, he sees wealth as the continuation of life, as it is what got him where he is today.
John Margaris
Group 5
ReplyDeleteRaymond Li & Brian Mahoney
Section 41
pp. 233 - 239
"They talked on and on, using Milkman as the ignition that gunned their memories. He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black-haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more.... Never mind you can't tell one line from another, never mind you born a slave, never mind you lose your name, never mind your daddy dead" (235).
The excerpt brought about a legendary image of Milkman's grandfather with some degree of exaggeration into the origins of Macon Dead's life. There is heavy repetition of short descriptive phrases describing Macon Dead as an all-around worker capable of anything in an almost tall-tale fashion and being larger than life. To Milkman and the old folks, Macon Dead is still very much this lively and powerful figure that lives in their minds of someone who stands against the odds and the black stereotype of being poor, with the embodiment of Macon Dead's power being poured into Milkman and Macon Dead Jr.'s current state of being the wealthy blacks. Ironically, their last name, Dead, heavily contrasts with the lively spirit of Macon Dead and the liveliness of the family name as it stands with Milkman, bringing out the true spirit of Milkman's family lineage from this cold, dead-like family devoted to monetary interests and lacking empathy or remorse to this family that is life itself.
Group 1, Section 21
ReplyDeleteI agree with John and Parker about the differences in socioeconomic classes, and the idea of language being used to show the difference between classes, and how Milkman seems to span the divide between economic statuses but remains very unsure about where he really belongs, thus his constant back and forth manner of speaking and how he tries to find a place in both worlds (i.e. working for his father, being best friends with Guitar).
Zoe Cuipylo-Watkins
Group 11, Section 41
ReplyDeleteI think the explication is well thought out and concise. Milkman, being a little more above the social-economic class that most of the black community is in. By leaving his comfort zone, I agree that this is a major turning point for Milkman, to discover not only his independence, but his heritage he never truly understood.
Raymond Li, Section 41
Group 11, Section 41
ReplyDeleteI thought it was very interesting that Rae and Beverly compared Circe to Guitar. Originally, I just saw Circe as an old lady that wanted to see everything in the house disintegrate because she was very contemptuous of the wealthy white family that she worked for. However, Rae and Beverly's point about Circe as a replacement of Mrs. Butler to the dogs made me realize that Circe's character represents the triumph of black people over white people. Now, I also see how this connects back to Guitar and his work with the Seven Days. Both have reasons to feel contempt towards white people because of their rough backgrounds; thus, they both share the similar goal of triumphing over white people.
Cindy Guan
Group 12
ReplyDeleteOwen Howell, Raymond Pun
Section 21
pp. 233-239
"They talked on and on, using Milkman as the ignition that gunned their memories. He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black-haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more .... Never mind you can't tell one letter from another, never mind you born a slave, never mind you lose your name, never mind your daddy dead. (235)
This passage offers insight into the life of Macon Dead by explaining the state of poverty that he was in during his life. With only a few things to his name, Macon symbolizes a success story for the African-American community and serves as an inspiration because he never let the fact that he was once a slave get in his way. His story of success transfers to his own son who becomes the wealthiest African-American in the community. The repetition of "never mind" in the passage seems to serve as encouragement for other blacks in the same position, urging them to forget about their former status and work hard.
Group 14
ReplyDeleteCaitlin Walsh, Vivian Nguyen
Section 41
pp. 219-226
"Everybody wants the life of a black man. Everybody. White men want us dead or quiet - which is the same thing as dead. White women, same thing. They want us, you know, 'universal,' human, no 'race consciousness'.... And black women, the want your whole self. Love, they call it, and understanding" (222).
In this passage, Guitar is explaining to Milkman that everyone wants something from the black man; he's pointing out a figurative slavery in which black men live their lives for other people, and because of this, they are unable to express themselves as individuals. Milkman was the first example that came to our minds because everyone wanted him for something other than himself: his mother wanted him to help fix her marriage, his sisters wanted a plaything, Pilate used him possibly for redemption (her love that would've gone towards her brother goes towards his son), and his Father at first didn't want him at all, and then came to want him only to continue his business. Milkman, throughout the novel, is a symbolism for the typical black man - though not all black men experienced exactly what he experienced, or even to the degree that he has, but Milkman struggles to find his identity, and Guitar is explaining why that is. The relentless repetition of "want" just further emphasizes that nothing is ever done for just themselves; it's always for other people and that takes up their whole selves. Guitar also brings a sort of credibility to his argument because he remains rational; it is clear that he is bitter because of what has happened to him and what he has seen happen to those around him, but he presents his argument calmly and we can't bring ourselves to dismiss it as just something he said in the heat of the moment because he has clearly been thinking about this and piecing together his point for quite some time.
Group 5
ReplyDeleteBrian Mahoney & Raymond Li
Section 41
pp. 233-239
"They talked on and on, using Milkman as the ignition that gunned their memories. The good times, the hard times, things that changed, things that stayed the same- and head and shoulders above it all was the tall, magnificent Macon Dead, whose death, it seemed to him was the beginning of their own dying even though they were young boys at the time. Macon Dead was the farmer they wanted to be, the clever irrigator, the peach tree grower, the hog slaughterer, the wild turkey roaster, the man who could plow forty in no time flat and sang like an angel while he did it. He had come out of nowhere, as ignorant as a hammer and as broke as a convict, with nothing but free papers, a Bible, and a pretty black haired wife, and in one year he'd leased ten acres, the next ten more. Sixteen years later he had one of the best farms in Montour County. A farm that covered their lives like a paintbrush and spoke to them like a sermon. 'You see?' the farm said to them. 'See? See what you can do? Never mind you can't tell one letter from another, never mind you were born a slave, never mind you lose your name, never mind your daddy dead, never mind nothing'" (235).
The passage details the many adversities Milkman's grandfather was able to overcome through hard work and diligence. The use of repetition in the passage illustrates the handicaps faced by Macon Dead I; furthermore the exaggerated details and hyperboles stress his accomplishments. The passage then begins to describe the meaning of the farmhouse; the farmhouse is a testament to Macon Dead I's labors. The anthropomorphic traits of the house, "[speaking] to them"(235) gives the farmhouse an enduring impact on the visitors by giving them a goal to strive for.
Group 11, Section 21
ReplyDeleteRegarding Cindy and Thinh's explication, I think it is really interesting that they connected the word "people" not only to Milkman's family, but also to other blacks. I had the same passage and stressed the significance of the connection to milkman's familial relationships, but I think that it is also a very valid point that the quote also seems to connect to the way in which Milkman was previously alienated from others in the African-American community. I definitely agree with Cindy and Thinh that this is a turning point in Milkman's life because he is finally discovering "links", not only to his own family, but also to other African-Americans in general.
haha. forgot to sign my name on the last comment
ReplyDelete- Christina McDonnell
I agree with Rae and Beverly’s assumption that Circe has a desire to watch the Butler’s house fall to pieces around her. She kept it clean and tidy for many, many years and worked hard. Mrs. Butler, when faced with the choice to either do work like Circe after all of her belongings and life savings were gone or die, she chose death and killed herself. I liked their comparison of Circe and Guitar and how they both chose to show their superiority to whites in personal ways.
ReplyDeleteKylie Nagle
Group 12 Section 21
ReplyDeleteI think Brian and Raymond made a good point about the contrast between the wealthy status of the Dead family to that of the lack of remorse and them only thinking about their finanacial value. Even though they are so wealthy, this constrast helps to reveal that the Dead family lacks something.I also agree with their statement that Macon's power/wealth somehow transfers to his son and Milkman.
-Owen Howell
Group 12 Section 21 had a passage that related to mine. My group also stated how Macon Dead was the black man that everyone wanted to be because he mad success for himself. He didn't sit around blaming everyone for his problems and decided he would try to fix them. Despite all his hardships he made it big. These ideals of being self sufficient pass on to Macon II and Milkman because they both want better for themselves. Macon believes that owning land and people is the way to success and Milkman wants to leave and be on his own and he wants success also. Because of the strong morals the first Macon set he effected his sons and his grandchild to be the same way and this is very important.
ReplyDeleteShantel shepard
Caitlin and Vivian used so many supporting details in their explication that they showed a different side of Guitar. By contrasting Guitar and Milkman, the reader can see the stark differences in their beliefs and ideologies. They are two very different characters, even though they would have been labeled the same at the time because they were both black men. Caitlin and Vivian definitely displayed and elaborated upon this in their analysis.
ReplyDelete-Brian Mahoney
Group 9, Section 41
ReplyDeleteI agree with John and Parker, for Fred and Milkman truly represent the ongoing conflict between city-dwellers and poor workers. Though the two start off their conversation rather casually, Milkman markedly shifts to a more formal tone of speech by the end of the ride. Fred has treated Milkman as an equal thus far, and only wanted to lend him a hand. Hence, Fred is offended when Milkman pointedly asks how much he owes for the ride. Milkman views everything in life in terms of money and value, whereas poorer folks like Fred only want to help out people and lead a sufficient life.
Winnie Huang
Group 5, Section 41
ReplyDeleteI thought that Brian and Raymond made a good point, commenting on the irony of the Deads' last name. Old Macon Dead at least was hardworking and loved by his entire community. It's ironic that what started off as a mistake made by a drunken Yankee slowly came to truth. Old Macon's death lead to the death of the dreams of those blacks in his community and to the eventual death of his family. I agree with both of them that the Deads are very dead-like and cold now, but that Milkman is trying to revive it.
Vivian Nguyen
Group 9, Section 21
ReplyDeleteI agree with Amanda's and Alice's commentary on Milkshake's hunger for food as a symbol for his appetite for gold. I also believe that his misfortune in the cave acted as reason for him to wake up and put his effort toward something. The quote reminded me of an earlier section of the chapter which referenced Hansel and Gretel. Here Morrison remarked that "A grown man can be energized by hunger, and any weakness in his knees or irregularity in his heartbeat will disappear if he thinks his hunger is about to be assuaged"(219). While Milkman may be let down at the moment, it seems that he will not let this desire go.
Jonlyn Englert (21)
Group 6.
ReplyDeleteBarbara De La Cruz and Ines Tamajong
Section 41
“Take advantage, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!” (235).
This passage illustrates that as long as the drive and will for great accomplishments exist so does the feasibility. The realization of success embodied in Lincoln’s Heaven is a source of inspiration for the culmination of dreams of the black men in Montour County and beyond. Through short, terse verses such as, “We live here… Nowhere else… Grab it. Grab this land!” it becomes apparent that the opportunity for success exists for all blacks as long as they take advantage of it. Macon Dead I proved that there was no adversity large enough to prevent him from an attempt at a better life. Employing the land as a personified sermon preaching the establishment of ownership as a symbol of personal independence, Morrison extends this ideal to Macon Dead II and his prized collection of keys. His keys symbolize resources put to good use, mirroring the success and philosophy of Macon Dead I.
I liked what Eleanor and Jonlyn said about Guitar's point of view in this passage and how his sarcasm is both pointing out his own feelings on the status of his race, but also on how he wants to perceive it. I think this passage also relates to the growing theme of love and hate in this book. Guitar is probably explaining the frustration he feels about the relationship black men have with other populations by describing it as a love for himself, rather than hatred from everyone else. This is similar to when he is justifying his membership of the days, and how it is out of love rather than hate for others, when really this is Morrison's use of irony, in my opinion. This quote really gave insight into Guitar's feelings.
ReplyDelete-Caytie Campbell-Orrock
Group 14, Section 41
ReplyDeleteI agree with what Winnie and Michelle said in their explication about Milkman's materialistic desires to some degree, but part of me also disagrees with them--I don't know if this search of his necessarily shows selfishness above all else. While I do agree that his priveleged upbringing and detatchment from the family, with good reasoning, shows a spoiled side to him, I think it's a personal, internal struggle that is surfacing here and it's a deeper need to finish this journey. Most of me agrees with everything Winnie and Michelle said--I just think it's definitely important to take into account the personal struggles Milkman is going through to identify himself.
-Caitlin Walsh
Group 6
ReplyDeleteInes Tamajong, Barbara De La Cruz
Section 41
pg 233-239
“Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!” (235)
The realization of success embodied in Lincoln’s Heaven is a source of inspiration for the culmination of the dreams of black men in Montour County. Through short, terse verses such as, “We live here… Nowhere else… Grab it. Grab this land!” it becomes apparent that the opportunity for success exists for all blacks, proven by Macon Dead, Sr. Through the personification of the land as a sermon, Morrison extends the metaphor to Macon Dead and his collection of keys, preaching the establishment of ownership as a symbol of putting one’s own resources to good use.
I really like the excerpt Raymond and Brian chose from their section of the novel. This excerpt really lets the reader know exactly how significant a character Macon Dead I was. More importantly, however, it reveals what Macon represented to other blacks at that time. While many felt that they could not amount to anything because they were oppressed, Macon was the counter-example. He was able to overcome adversity, become wealthy, and build a great life that represented opportunity for all blacks. In addition, the passage reveals the devastation black community members felt following his murder. I like how Raymond and Brian explain the symbolism of the farmhouse and what it represented.
ReplyDeleteMike Scannell
“Milkman began to shake with hunger. Real hunger, not the less than top-full feeling he was accustomed to, the nervous desire to taste something good. Real hunger. He believed if he didn’t get something to eat that instant he would pass out. He examined the bushes, the branches, the ground for a berry, a nut, anything, But he didn’t know what to look for, nor how they grew” (253).
ReplyDelete"At this point, Milkman has finished searching the cave on his quest to
find the bags of gold and ends up finding no trace of it. This is the
start of his “hunger” for food (figuratively used as a symbol for
gold) as he becomes desperate to “eat something” or else he will pass
out, which has a second meaning that he will become insane unless he
finds the gold. In a sense, the gold is the “food” that will fill
Milkman’s stomach and heart’s desires. Although he has no sense of
direction, as he is lost in the wilderness, Milkman continues to look
for the food that will fill his soul."
I disagree with what Alice and Amanda say. I don't think that there is any symbolic meaning here. I think milkman is just hungry. I dont think it has anything to do with his thirst for gold. After eating 8 hamburgers he then has the idea to go on the hunt to Virginia for gold. I think his hunger overpowers his determination to find gold.
Kyle Moore Anderson
I think that Sally and Daniel brought up some really interesting points in their explication. Milkman has struggled with his issues of feeling as though he doesn't belong anywhere worth belonging for a large portion of the novel. Milkman is now able to feel as though he has something that he can really feel connected to and be proud of. Back in town he often feels as though he has to make apologies and excuses for his family members but in Montour County, he can be proud of his family and where he comes from.
ReplyDeleteI think that his coming back to his roots will be a real turning point for Milkman.
- Ines Tamajong
Group 10
ReplyDeleteKyle Moore Anderson - Eddy
Section 21
258
"She came back before they dumped the Negro they found in the cave. She took the bones, all right; Milkman had seen them on the table in the jailhouse. But that's not all she took. She took the gold. To Virginia. And maybe somebody in Virginia would know. Milkman followed her tracks" (258).
We though this short little passage was pretty straight foreword. It sets the seen for what Milkman is going to do next chapter. We thought it was strange that it referred to Pilate as a "Negro" Instead of using her name. We think that now that milkman has freedom he is going on the adventure not to find gold but to avoid going back home.Hes always wanted to get away and now that he has an excuse to leave he doesn't mind going on a wild goose chase for gold.
Group 5
ReplyDeleteSection 41
I really like the excerpt Raymond and Brian chose from their section of the novel. This excerpt really lets the reader know exactly how significant a character Macon Dead I was. More importantly, however, it reveals what Macon represented to other blacks at that time. While many felt that they could not amount to anything because they were oppressed, Macon was the counter-example. He was able to overcome adversity, become wealthy, and build a great life that represented opportunity for all blacks. In addition, the passage reveals the devastation black community members felt following his murder. I like how Raymond and Brian explain the symbolism of the farmhouse and what it represented.
Michael Scannell
Group #11 Ruby Sarron, Christina
ReplyDeleteSection 21
"All his life he'd heard the tremorin the word:"I live here, but my people..." or: "She acts like she ain't got no people," or: "Do any of your people live there?" But he hadn't known what it meant: links."
Milkman has left his family in search of independence, flight, but found himselfrooted in the country of his grandfather and his fatherconnecting and strengthening deeper famiy ties. We first defined "people" as related family or blood relatives. We saw a lot of repitition in this passage which we think signifies the importance of family and how it defines a persons character. We saw the italicised word "people" as representing the inevitable presence your past relations and fmaily will have in your life.
I completely agree with Barbara and Ines. That excerpt about seizing what you want and making something of yourself was in awe of Macon Dead and his successes. I think it means exactly what they said in that it shows how all black men can sieze what they want and should. That all black men have the ability to do something great, or to gain anything they want, if only they would strive for it. The two examples they use, Lincolns Heaven and Macon Dead's keys, are perfect for the excerpt. These are concrete things that black men own. These are the symbols of the success a black man could have.
ReplyDeleteRuby Sarron
Group 8, Section 41
ReplyDeleteI agree with Michelle and Rominda one what was said of Macon Dead I, and his son. His way of living life after he was freed from slavery reveals where Macon Dead II acquired his philosophy on life of owning things, of taking something and making it your own. I would say that both father and son led a similar as, as they both started their lives with nothing, but steadily cultivated it so that they later became rich and successful. The passage also explains why the Deads are so respected in their community: they show other blacks that it can be done. They show that you can take your life, and turn it from nothing, to something. This seems to be what Milkman now wants to do with his life, he wants to become successful on his own, and make something out of his life.
Beverly Nguyen
Rae and Beverly made some very good observations in their explication. A theme in the novel so far seems to be that of the value of material goods, or just value in general. Circe's priorities and those of the Butlers are juxtaposed. The Butlers had all they wanted in money and wealth but they perished and what's left of them is decaying over time. Circe outlived the Butlers and will outlive the house. She did not place value in material wealth the way the Butlers did and she is getting her satisfaction by watching the house deteriorate. Also, as Rae and Beverly said, her desire to see the house decay is her resistance. They drew a great parallel between how Guitar and Circe are resisting their oppression.
ReplyDeleteEdsuvani Maisonet
Group 14, Laura Wohn and Elizabeth Reardon
ReplyDeleteSection 21
Pg. 219-226
"Look. It's the condition our condition is in. Everybody wants the life of a black man. Everybody. White men want us dead or quiet - which is the same thing as dead. White women, samt thing. They want us, you know, 'universal,' human, no 'race consciousness'" (222).
In this passage, we believe that Guitar is not only giving an explanation to Milkman about why he , but also criticizing the conditions of black peoples' lives. Guitar's perception is that black people are constantly facing expectations from both white and black people. He emphasizes how the lives of black people are controlled and that they lack freedom, and that there's basically nothing worth living for if you're not allowed to take risks. With repetition, terse syntax, rhetorical questions, symbolism (the image of how climbing Mount Everest even isn't "enough"), and even sarcastic humor, Guitar attempts to get his point across to Milkman; he ends his speech with, "What good is a man's life if he can't even choose what to die for?" - referring to how in his own life (from his own harsh childhood to his involvement in the Seven Days) he has no opportunity to make his own choices, but he is always expected or forced to do certain things.
Group 6, Section 21
ReplyDelete“Take advantage of it, and if you can’t take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowhere else. We got a home in this rock, don’t you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!” (235)
I think that this passage truly emphasizes how Macon believes that it is so crucial to strive to survive and succeed as a black person. I agree with Aded and Laura that it is evident that Macon’s ambition contrasts with Milkman’s inactiveness. African Americans had the right to own land and live their dreams, but many failed to take the advantage mostly due to fear. With much determination, Macon appears to be quite firm and really tries to make his message clear and persuasive using imperative verbs and commands.
-Laura Wohn
p.s. Sorry about the typo in the previous post...forgot to add "thinks that people want their 'living lives'" after "about why he" in the first sentence!
I agree with Laura and Aded's excplication, as I thought it was interesting how aspects of the theme of the American Dream were included in Song of Solomon. It shows the characters desire to catch up to the white people, to break out of the mold they've been stuck in, and to change the way black people are viewed. They don't necessarily want to be more like white people, they just want all the oppurtunities that white people seem to inately have, one of which being the right to seek the american dream. This desire to "catch up" is also shown in the urgency of the tone, which Laura and Aded discussed.
ReplyDelete-Andrea Maistros
Group 2: Khadeejah Clemons, Danielle Santos Section 41
ReplyDelete"Everybody wants the life of a black man. Everybody. White men want us dead or quiet- which is the same thing as dead. White women, same thing. They want us, you know, 'universal,' human, no 'race consciousness'....And black women the want your whole self. Love, they call it, and understanding"(222).
Guitar is trying to convince Milkman that wanting to distance himself from the rest of his family is a good thing because he is the only person that can help himself. This passage relates to the rest of the novel in many cases but particularly regarding Milkman's grandfather, who was shot and killed by a wealthy white family because he was a black sharecropper. The black man has no rights and everyone is against beside himself. After Milkman and Guitar's talk, their usual high-five is weak showing that the trust between them is gone and it is everyman for himself now. The allusion to Hansel and Gretel on page 219 symbolizes Milkman finding self-understanding and his family's complex history with Circe's guidance. Also, the dreary and haunting atmosphere adds to the chilling effect of this passage overall.
Group 8, Section 41
ReplyDeleteI agree with Rae and Beverly, because the Butlers were money-hungry and only valued materialistic things while Circe valued life itself. I felt that it was quite morbid that she would stay at their house just to watch it disintegrate. I also agree with their connection with Circe to Guitar since they both are triumphant over whites but in two different ways. Circe's way is by taking over the Butler family's wealth and Guitar murder the 'innocent' white people.
Khadeejah Clemons
(Absent)
ReplyDeleteGroup 3
Brittany Miller
Section 41
"Then he watched signs - the names of towns that lay twenty-two miles ahead, seventeen miles to the east, five miles to the northeast. And the names of junctions, creeks, landings, parks, and lookout points" (226).
In this passage, Milkman is on the Greyhound bus looking out the window as he's on his way to Danville. He originally was paying attention to the setting around him but quickly became bored. Soon enough he began to pay close attention to the small details of things that lie ahead of him. Milkman has always wanted to move forward throughout the whole novel and so when he starts paying attention to what lies ahead of him it shows that he is no longer behind and that he is progressing.
Group 6
ReplyDeleteSection 12
I agree with Adedolapo and Laura when the refer to the American Dream and how that influenced the Deads' goals to be successful. Especially for Macon II, after his father was murdered because he was a successful African American farmer, it seemed as though Macon II wanted to make him proud and follow the American Dream. The quote refers to taking advantage of the opportunities that are available because it's their right. I definitely agree that this passage alludes to the hopes of success by Macon Dead I and tells us why Macon Jr. was so apt to make sure he did well for himself. I also agree that the passage is stating that African Americans do have the right to own land etc. and that by being successful one would be happy.
Brittany Miller
Group 3, Section 21
ReplyDeleteI disagree with Alice and Amanda that Milkman's "hunger" figuratively is for the gold. I believe it is figurative, but for answers. Milkman at this point seems to want answers more than the gold, although in the beginning of his travels, Milkman seemed to want the gold most, and that seemed to be his major goal. Milkman has a hunger for answers about his father's family. He wants to know for himself who his father and Pilate are, as in where they have come from and who is telling the truth about them. He has been so misguided and told so many things about his father and PIlate by both of them and Ruth. He needs to know at this point who they are, and where is the gold. He wants to know if Pilate really would have taken the gold, and basically now, he is just looking for answers.
-MariaElena Terzis
"Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!" (235)
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that in the passage it says that we got a home in this rock. A rock is hard and sturdy but it is unusual word to use when describing a home. However, I think the use of the word rock describes perfectly the struggle of the African-Americans. They are sturdy hard workers yet the life they live is not a comfortable one. They must struggle and yet be satisfied with never living the comfortable lives that whites live. This passage makes the reader understand more the mindset of Macon Dead and why he feels the need to own things and people. The use of the exclamation marks and the use of the word “grab” makes it seem that owning this land is vital and critical to the existence of African-Americans.
*Group 6
ReplyDeleteVanessa Omoroghomwan
Section 21
"Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!" (235)
I find it interesting that in the passage it says that we got a home in this rock. A rock is hard and sturdy but it is unusual word to use when describing a home. However, I think the use of the word rock describes perfectly the struggle of the African-Americans. They are sturdy hard workers yet the life they live is not a comfortable one. They must struggle and yet be satisfied with never living the comfortable lives that whites live. This passage makes the reader understand more the mindset of Macon Dead and why he feels the need to own things and people. The use of the exclamation marks and the use of the word “grab” makes it seem that owning this land is vital and critical to the existence of African-Americans.
I agree with Khadeejah and Danielle when they say that the weak high five is because of the lack of trust but I believe it is also because of thier polar opposite beliefs. Their ideas of differ so greatly that it is wedging a divide in their relationship. This difference of ideas is clear in the scene where Milkman and Guitar talk about what they would do if they found the gold. It seems that as they grow up Milkman and Guitar differences in socioeconomic status are making them grow apart and this is what caused the "weak high-five" .
ReplyDelete- Vanessa Omoroghomwan
Group 13
ReplyDeleteNora Hayes, Randy Coplin
Sec. 21
pp. 233-239
“Take advantage, and if you can’t take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowhere else. We got a home in this rock, don’t you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!” (235).
In this passage, the land of Lincoln’s Heaven talks directly to the black residents of Danville, giving them hope. In direct opposition to the ideology behind the Seven Days, it says that black people do have the power to change their situation and create better lives for themselves and their children. It demonstrates why, after white people took Lincoln’s Heaven, the black people began “dying.” Without the hope that the land gave them, they began to believe that whites had all the power and always would.
(Absent)
ReplyDeleteGroup 13, Section 21
I agree with Khadeejah and Danielle that Guitar is trying to convince Milkman to distance himself from the rest of his family, since Guitar never particularly liked the rest of Milkman’s family anyway. I also agree that the passage shows the beginning of the disintegration of the trust between Guitar and Milkman when their normal high-five is weak.
- Nora Hayes
I find it interesting that in the passage it says that we got a home in this rock. A rock is hard and sturdy but it is unusual word to use when describing a home. However, I think the use of the word rock describes perfectly the struggle of the African-Americans. They are sturdy hard workers yet the life they live is not a comfortable one. They must struggle and yet be satisfied with never living the comfortable lives that whites live. This passage makes the reader understand more the mindset of Macon Dead and why he feels the need to own things and people. The use of the exclamation marks and the use of the word “grab” makes it seem that owning this land is vital and critical to the existence of African-Americans.
ReplyDeleteRandy Coplin
Eleanore Saintis
ReplyDeleteGroup Six
Section 21
"Take advantage of it, and if you can't take advantage, take disadvantage. We live here. On this planet, in this nation, in this country right here. Nowehere else. We got a home in this rock, don't you see? Nobody starving in my home; nobody crying in my home, and if I got a home you got one too! Grab it. Grab this land!" (235)
Macon Dead's farm, Lincoln's Heaven, and his success due to it, reminds the residents of Danville that they have just as much right to live out their own version of the American dream as a white man. Most of the residents of Danville during this period would have been newly freed slaves, and they would have lacked hope for a successful future due to their past. But seeing Macon Dead start the farm from almost nothing and making it into such a success would have inspired the rest of the town. Macon Dead is their example of success and, therefor,e when he is killed and his farm is taken from him by a rich white family, it kills the hopes and dreams of living out the American dream that had been inspired by Macon Dead. His death shows them that although they have been freed from slavery, their situation has not improved, and most likely it never will.
Ciaran Foley
ReplyDeleteSection 21
pp. 246-252
"'Finally she couldn't take it anymore. The thought of having no help, no money--well, she couldn't take that. She had to let everything go. ... No, she didn't let me go. She killed herself'" (247).
In this passage Circe is responding to Milkman's criticisms of her in which he insinuates that she enjoyed her life as a maid and that she even loved the Butler family she worked for. She shows how in the end she proved that she was stronger than the Butlers as they slowly died off until the last heiress killed herself rather than be reduced to performing her own housework. In this passage Milkman's hypocrisy is highlighted. Milkman has never done real manual work in his life. He was born with a silver spoon in his mouth and, through his father's properties, has "owned" his fellow black people. Yet here he is criticizing a woman who has struggled to survive her entire life, who is many years his elder (and maybe dead/a ghost?), and who saved the lives of his father and aunt. It is interesting that the Butler woman chose to end her life by jumping off the landing. This mirrors Mr. Smith's leap from (for) Mercy and foreshadows Milkman's leap at the end of the book, but it has a much more negative connotation. Overall this passage is another example of how the women around Milkman have an awareness that he lacks, even though they all find themselves somehow in his power.
Group 1
ReplyDeleteSadia Ahmad
"He knew that an old woman had lived in it once, but he saw no signs of life there now. He was oblivious to the universe of wood life that did live there in layers of ivy grown so thick he could have sunk his arm in it up to the elbow. Life that crawled, life that slunk and crept and never closed its eyes."
Milkman cannot see what is going on around him. He is surrounded by events that he did not care for. He had always listened to the stories that made up his father's life, which in turn made up a big portion of his own life but never paid close attention to the detail. He wouldn't be able to see the truth ("wood life") if it hit him in the face ("layers of ivy grown so thick he could have sunk his arm in it").
Group 1
ReplyDeleteSection 41
Nora and Randy made a powerful statement with their passage and its explication and I completely agree with the idea behind it. The black community wanted to have as much power as the whites did and the hope of power is conveyed in that passage as they accurately describe.
Sadia Ahmad
I agree with Vivian and Caitlin on what it means that "everybody wants something from a black man." However I think there is an irony in the statement which they did not address. Guitar insists that black women want black men all to themselves, with no other joys in life. While there is evidence for this in the book, especially with Hagar's cyclical stalking of Milkman, it can also plainly be seen that it is the black women who suffer most at the hands of the men. Reba gives everything valuable that she wins to men, but she is still pushed around and beaten up until Pilate steps in. Ruth gives her whole self to her father. When her father dies, she tries to give herself to her husband but he is disgusted by her and treats her harshly. Pilate tries to settle with the island people and with a man she loves, but she knows her physical oddity will prevent her from this eventually. Hagar is the one who is consumed by her love for Milkman. She is the one who is mocked, hated, and finally destroyed because of her feelings for Milkman. Throughout the book, although black women want the entirety of black men, it is they themselves who suffer for this, not the men.
ReplyDelete--Ciaran Foley
[ABSENT]
ReplyDeleteGroup 3, Thu Tran and Maria Terzis
Section 21
"Then he watched signs - the names of towns that lay twenty-two miles ahead, seventeen miles to the east, five miles to the northeast. And the names of junctions, creeks, landings, parks, and lookout points" (226).
Milkman observes the scenery running past his bus window for as long as his curiosity can last him. For that fleeting moment, there is nothing else he can do at this moment but to sit back and simply stare transfixed at the “signs” that are in front of him. Just by this description of the scenery, there seems to be a “old” Milkman and a “new” Milkman. From money to women, nothing had interested Milkman, but now that he obtained a goal; it almost consumes him. Because of this determination to find the gold, he is watchful of his surroundings. By noticing the names of the creeks and lookout points and by providing numbers, Milkman can start to link his family to the truth since the entire novel puts emphasis behind names and details. The "signs" which he watches could be an example of word play; it can signify the physical signs he passes along the road or the figurative signs which points him in a direction towards uncovering his roots.
[ABSENT]
ReplyDeleteGroup 14, Section 41
Caitlin and Vivian’s explication of this passage is well thought out and supported. When reading the passage for the first time, I thought Guitar was talking about the typical black man, as he usually does when he talks to Milkman about the Seven Days. I definitely agree that Milkman fits all of the criteria; his parents want him to hate the other, his sisters want him to change, and Hagar wants his love. I never really labeled Guitar’s words as credible since his actions and beliefs are far too extreme to be considered so, but he does seems rational and level-headed. He has some truth in what he says, and they are not just words of a madman.
Thu Tran
{absent}
ReplyDeleteMichaela Bosch
Group 2 Section 41
Page 222
"Everybody wants the life of a black man....And black women, they want your whole self. Love, they call it, and understanding."
This passage is the preface to Guitar's explanation of the Seven Days. In it, he tries to convince Milkman that the 'condition' that every black man is in is one where everyone wants something from him but they don't want to give anything to him. White men and women and black women all want them to pour themselves into an appropriate little mold of quietness. Whites want them subservient or dead, and black women want them to be entirely devoted. "Black women, they what your whole self", he says. Guitar's tone is angry and fed-up. This paragraph explains why he feels the need to join the Seven Days. It's before he gets into the bizarre sense of 'justice that the Days live by, which means that these are his own personal reasons.
Group 2 Section 41
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ellie and Jonlyn, who had the same segment as me. they made a good point when they said,
"The informal language suggests that this is Guitar’s honest opinion, and his use of repetition emphasizes his point. His tone is somewhat sarcastic and is very cynical; he only sees the bad in these people, who he claims all want “the life of a black man” (222)."
I don't know if it was repetition as much as it was redundancy. He didn't speak very eloquently, but his emotions really came through.
Michaela Bosch